FE vs Coyote

LesMurray · #1 (**permalink**) 04-03-2013, 10:05 PM

I thought I'd ask since these are two engines I am considering.

First, let me state that I am not interested in insane power. So either engine would be near stock with maybe mild power additions. I am looking for somewhere around 300+ HP to the wheels with some nice torque numbers. My plan is a spirited street Cobra with the rare occasion of a track date.

The Coyote looks like it delivers nice power at a decent price. This becomes more true with time as Ford is bringing down the price of their Coyote stock and Aluminator crate engines. The FE (for me a 390 block) gives that original look with similar power numbers, but with some extra weight.

Just want to get your thoughts. Some considerations I have are 1) Coyote engines are newer and tuning hasn't been quite figured out yet 2) both Coyote and FE engines are quite large and fill up the engine bay pretty well and 3) transmissions begin to factor in as the larger power numbers will stess the basic Ford T-5 some.

Thanks for your opinions.

Les

fordracing65 · #2 (**permalink**) 04-03-2013, 10:19 PM

Coyote equals no tq, FE equals all tq...

lippy · #3 (**permalink**) 04-03-2013, 10:28 PM

What type of kit are you using? If you are doing an FFR a Coyote would fit fine. On an ERA or SPF, not so easy.

fordracing65 · #4 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lippy

What type of kit are you using? If you are doing an FFR a Coyote would fit fine. On an ERA or SPF, not so easy.

I had a SPF with a Coyote, it dropped right in, they make mounts for it...Now I'm on to an FE, that's how I know, no TQ...

Cashburn · #5 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fordracing65

I had a SPF with a Coyote, it dropped right in, they make mounts for it...Now I'm on to an FE, that's how I know, no TQ...

No you didn't... Alteast be honest when giving false info

CobraEd · #6 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 05:49 AM

The coyote idles like a Cadillac. You can put a nice cam in the FE so that it will have that nice lumpy Cobra idle. Even if you do not want insane horsepower, I would think you want the whole Cobra image with the nice lumpy idle and the overall sound and effect. You will not get that with the Coyote engine. It purrs like a Camry

.

fordracing65 · #7 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cashburn

No you didn't... Alteast be honest when giving false info

Just for your info the DOHC Cammer and Coyote are the exact same engine in specs and size, hp and tq, both were used in grand am racing, and actually my Cammer put out more power than the Coyote, so your right in a way, keep up the Phantom tunes and pushing the tq less Coyoyte..

Dimis · #8 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 03:39 AM

Les,
It's totally up to you, but since you asked... if it were me building a hurricane (as per your other posts), I'd go for a stroker 390FE (445) or a 428 if I could find one in decent condition for a reasonable price.
Any decent FE engine builder could easily hit your power target with their eyes closed.

The coyote engines are nice and breath well but...

LesMurray · #9 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 07:54 AM

Does the fact that I want to go with undercar exhaust make either choice more obvious?

mdross1 · #10 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LesMurray

Does the fact that I want to go with undercar exhaust make either choice more obvious?

It shouldnt you can go either way there as well.A lot of our cars have belly exhaust,another one of those personal preference things.The true beauty of a kit car.

Wbulk · #11 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 09:42 AM

When I was seventeen a friends dad referred to the sound of my Corvette Stingray as a washing machine. I think he was right.

Back to the Subject:
I think the Cobras saved the FE engines; at least it seems that way. I remember in 1974 reading an article in one of the magazines about it becomming a dinosaur and a boat anchor. I built a ton of them and never really liked the design. Parts have improved and things have changed. They now garner a lot of prestige. But the weight is a negative to handling. For my next project I have done a lot of reading on Coyote installs on the FFR cars, and there is considerable more work to the installation. It appears all the bugs have not been worked out. The total cost for all the parts is running around 10K if you do it all yourself. Between those two choices I think I would choose the 390 FE as the way to go for ease of the project and you will retain the prestige. I agree with your approach for a mild build. I have too many friends that don't drive their cobras because their engines are too radical for the street.

LesMurray · #12 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 11:39 AM

I have looked at Southern Automotive and they seem to do a nice basic 390 for the price of a 302. And they even sell dress up kits to give it that 427 look.

Mdman352 · #13 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 02:31 PM

I own an FE with side pipes and no inserts. Give me Fe or give me deaf. FYI...The stock Coyote Mustang class in NMCA are posting in the LOW 10's. Try that in a FE!!!

andig · #14 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 08:05 PM

I don't think there is a right or wrong answer to this question as it is all a matter of personal preference.

I have had two Cobra's, not an FE but one with a 427R with 8 stack with 600 horses and the same amount of torque and now one with a Coyote with around 475 hp and much less torque.

If you want the classic look, lumpy and noisy idle go with the 427. If you aren't bothered about originality, the coyote is still a great looking motor under the hood, is very smooth and actually pretty damn loud when you put your foot into it. Also the car handles better with less weight in the nose and frankly with the right gearing (3.91), you don't miss the torque because the car is so light and the thing revs for fun.

It certainly doesn't turn the car into a *****cat either and I am sure it will still bite my ass like a 427 would if I try and take liberties with it.

Just my 2 cents.

Andy

AL427SBF · #15 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 08:10 PM

Get the Coyote and have peace of mind of reliability with plenty of performance vs. a closer clone that's going to mess up your garage floor and a pain in the ass to maintain

Dimis · #16 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 09:02 PM

By the way Les - If you pass on the Hurricane, I'm sure Cashburn could hook you up with a BDR with what ever engine you like

951mat · #17 (**permalink**) 04-04-2013, 09:07 PM

I think with under car exhaust, you're moving away from the crazy loud cobra sounds anyway. That would lean me towards the coyote. It will still sound nice I'm sure. You might even be able to speak to your passenger

I'm surprised no ones mentioned the t5. I assume it needs beefing up for either motor. I also believe tko600s don't even want to spin/shift behind a coyote pulling to 7000rpm, without mods. Maybe those mods arent a big deal? Maybe someone can add to that.

Mat

blykins · #18 (**permalink**) 04-05-2013, 05:01 AM

Explain your point, because I still don't agree.

The fact that you have to pay that price for an engine that is only 400 hp is not a selling point for me. I'm sure you have a deal with Ford Racing, but the prices I'm seeing are around $6300-6500 for the engine, and another $1500-ish for the support items. Is that pretty close?

Trying to sell a Cobra and telling the prospective buyers that it's only 400 hp....again, not a selling point.

I'm in hardy agreement that part of the builder's role is to "size up" the customer, talk over all different options, then meet his needs to the fullest. But, you wouldn't believe how many guys have come to me saying, my engine is 400, 450, 500, 550 hp, and I'm getting used to it...I need something more.

There are lots of guys out there that can handle a large amount of horsepower in a tiny car...

JST4FUN · #19 (**permalink**) 04-05-2013, 07:05 AM

I went through the same process several years ago. The real answer is it is what you want, it really gets down to personal preference! My personal preference was a 390 punched to a 406 from Southern Automotive. It is a real FE and looks like a 427. It has a streetable cam, but has a really good lope. On the dyno, 350hp @ 5400 and 390ft-lb @ 4200, which works well for me, great torque curve making it fun to drive. I will say that when I ride in my buddy's 600+hp 427SO, it's a rush...but I've had far fewer mechanical problems. Les, email me if you have any questions about SA's 390 platform from an owner's perspective!

I will add that my goal was to have as close of a 65 Cobra 427S/C replica as I could afford. After establishing what I really wanted, the FE was the logical choice for me.

fordracing65 · #20 (**permalink**) 04-05-2013, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blykins

Explain your point, because I still don't agree.

The fact that you have to pay that price for an engine that is only 400 hp is not a selling point for me. I'm sure you have a deal with Ford Racing, but the prices I'm seeing are around $6300-6500 for the engine, and another $1500-ish for the support items. Is that pretty close?

Trying to sell a Cobra and telling the prospective buyers that it's only 400 hp....again, not a selling point.

I'm in hardy agreement that part of the builder's role is to "size up" the customer, talk over all different options, then meet his needs to the fullest. But, you wouldn't believe how many guys have come to me saying, my engine is 400, 450, 500, 550 hp, and I'm getting used to it...I need something more.

There are lots of guys out there that can handle a large amount of horsepower in a tiny car...

Great point, that's why I'm getting a Blykins built FE, need more POWER