Bellhousing question

kevins2 · #1 (**permalink**) 10-05-2013, 08:50 AM

One of the modifications needed for an ERA car is to cut the flange off the bottom of the bellhousing so that it doesn't extend below the chassis. I'm using a Quicktime RM6056SFI. To cut it off straight, I want to confirm at what points I can take some measurements. Just to "eyeball" it, I mounted the bellhousing on the engine and used a level to first determine that the engine is sitting perfectly level (checked level in 3 different places and all the same results). Then, I threaded the transmission mounting bolts in a bit and set the level across the bolts, expecting to see the same level reading. I discovered that the rear plate of the bellhousing (where the transmission mounts) is not in perfect alignment with the bellhousing - one side is about 1/8 lower than the other. This isn't precision measuring - just using a level, but it is accurate enough to see it isn't perfectly aligned. I measured as closely as possible using both the top and bottom transmission mounting holes with the same results. So, the transmission mounting plate isn't welded perfectly on the bellhousing. Anyone ever encountered this? This would mean that the transmission would be "tweaked" to one side about 1/8 inch. I'm not an expert so am seeking advice. This raises a red flag for me.

Thanks for any help.

Regards,

Kevin

kevins2 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-05-2013, 09:23 AM

OK, think I got the answer to this so thought I'd post it out here for anyone else that gets confused by the same thing (or, in case the answer I got is inaccurate - chime in).

I managed to reach the transmission guy where I bought the bellhousing and described the issue. He said they're designed that way with the transmission mounting plate slightly tilted to the left. I didn't tell him which side was lower and it is the left, so sounds believable, plus this guy seems to really know his stuff. He wasn't sure exactly why they're designed this way and added that the T5 transmissions are tweaked 17* to the left. So, this doesn't appear to be a problem. If anyone knows the reason for this, just curious to know why. Something to do with engine torque?

DanEC · #3 (**permalink**) 10-05-2013, 11:56 AM

Kevin - for what it's worth - I didn't trim my Quicktime bellhousing. It is approximately level with the bottom of my oil pan and about an inch below the frame rails. My understanding has been that Lakewood BHs really need to be trimmed, but not necessarily the Quicktime. It would be possible for something to ride along the underside of the oil pan and then catch the lip of the bellhousing. I guess it's a personal decision. Here are some pictures installed if they help any.

I didn't notice the slightly rotated position of the transmission in relation to the engine. That's interesting.

kevins2 · #4 (**permalink**) 10-05-2013, 12:13 PM

Hi Dan,

Just came in from cutting the flange off to have a bite to eat, so guess I made my decision. Will file it smooth and prime/paint the cut and it's done. Not a big deal but earlier when I thought I might have a defective bellhousing I didn't want to cut into it until I got to the bottom of that.

Thanks,

Kevin

DanEC · #5 (**permalink**) 10-05-2013, 12:17 PM

It will give you a little extra protection on speed bumps.

Dan

RICK LAKE · #6 (**permalink**) 10-06-2013, 04:41 AM

kevins2 kevin If AZ is any thing like NJ the roads suck. If you are running a 5" height on the frame and 15" tires, you shouldn't hit any thing with the bottom of the car. I run 4" with 17" wheels and have hit the bellhousing. I bent the lip back but still have all the bolts holding the plates togeather. I have a lakewood setup. Here's the problem I have and have seen happen. This was with SFI parts of a clutch assembly blowing up and came out the bottom of the bellhousing. Explosion blew open the bottom and cut down the tires at the track. Owner walked away, car was totaled. Guy was band for life from track for modifing bell. There was a hole in the track surface also the size of a small potholemaybe 6-8".These bell housing are not to be modified for this reason. Odds of you blowing up are less than 1%. Other notes, you know the motor sits about 1" over to the right in an ERA car? The drive shaft is not straight from back of trans to rearend. The important thing is the have both the angle degree of the outputshaft match the angle degree of the pinion on the rearend. This stops vibration of the drive train. I hoped you checked your out of round on the bellhousing before installing the trans. Quicktime are "0" checked where lakewood was .38" off on my motor. Last note I have the motor sitting 1/4" high on the r/s to allow for torque loads on accelleration. Helps. Add the bolt,washers and aircraft nuts to limit the rubber motor mounts from spliting over time. There is a thread for this either here or in FE forumn. Good luck Rick L.

kevins2 · #7 (**permalink**) 10-06-2013, 07:51 AM

Hi Rick,

Thanks for the feedback. I haven't installed the motor yet, so haven't set the ride height. My car will be street driven only, so I'm more concerned with hitting something than I am blowing up the clutch. I am aware that the engine sits to the right about 1". Didn't know that the driveshaft is not straight because the differential is also off to the right a bit as well. Can see it without measuring, but I just took some measurements from the centerline of the driveshaft hookup to the door sill on each side and it is a little more than an inch closer to the passenger side. For this reason, I think the drive shaft will be straight. Could be wrong since this is my first build, but that's what I'm seeing.

I'm getting the bellhousing dialed in tomorrow, and am enjoying this part of the build. Will be installing a mechanical fuel pump, water pump, alternator and pulleys today so will enjoy the day (I hope...). I appreciate everyone's helpful feedback.

Oh, and by the way, I'm in PA, not in AZ, so roads are similar condition as NJ. That said, there are thousands of miles of country roads that are actually in great condition (better than the urban areas). I've driven a lot of them on my Harley and look forward to driving them in the Cobra. I can get to these roads with only 1 traffic light and then can drive all day without seeing another one if I avoid the little towns.

Regards,

Kevin

DanEC · #8 (**permalink**) 10-06-2013, 11:47 AM

Kevin - good luck with dialing in your bellhousing. It's can be kind of a pain so I asked the builder to check mine. But I wanted to double check it because I couldn't find any handling marks on it and wasn't sure they didn't forget. But, it was right on the money. I've heard this is typical of Quicktime bellhousings. Hope yours checks out OK also.

So when is the anticipated big day for dropping the engine in?

Dan

kevins2 · #9 (**permalink**) 10-06-2013, 04:09 PM

Hi Dan,

I'm taking the engine and bellhousing to a mechanic tomorrow to get the bellhousing dialed in. He's a cobra guy (owns an A&C). I don't want to buy a dial indicator for one-time use and I don't weld, so makes sense to get it done professionally. I'm hoping to have everything ready to put the engine in next weekend when my son comes home from school for the weekend.

Meant to thank you for taking all the photos above - appreciate it.

Regards,

Kevin

bobcowan · #10 (**permalink**) 10-06-2013, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

Kevin - for what it's worth - I didn't trim my Quicktime bellhousing. It is approximately level with the bottom of my oil pan and about an inch below the frame rails.

That's trouble waiting to happen. Anything hanging below the frame rails is bound to hit something.

mdross1 · #11 (**permalink**) 10-07-2013, 05:53 AM

We are running a Lakewood steel bell after my son driving the car hit a rock pushing through the road one day and the scare it gave we did a trim. Took approx. an inch of flange off giving us 5" clearance, no more hits since.

strictlypersonl · #12 (**permalink**) 10-07-2013, 06:15 AM

Use a trimmed engine intermediate plate to determine where to cut the bellhousing (as illustrated in the manual). That will put the bottom of the bellhousing approximately even with the chassis.

kevins2 · #13 (**permalink**) 10-07-2013, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

Use a trimmed engine intermediate plate to determine where to cut the bellhousing (as illustrated in the manual). That will put the bottom of the bellhousing approximately even with the chassis.

Hi Bob,

I did reference the drawing in the manual and also measured the 8" to center, as stated in the manual so think I'm good there.

Thanks for your help this morning, the drawing you sent helped us determine that the clutch fork pivot point was not correct and was indeed off roughly 1/4". The fix was to put the pivot bracket in a press and press some of the "L" shape out of it, which effectively moved the pivot point out the 1/4" needed. After that the fork and throwout bearing worked smoothly. The guy helping with this ran a weld along the bend in the bracket just in case bending it weakened it.

Thanks again.

Regards,

Kevin

DanEC · #14 (**permalink**) 10-07-2013, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcowan

That's trouble waiting to happen. Anything hanging below the frame rails is bound to hit something.

I'm not too worried about it - the radiator cooler part of the nose is about 1/2 to 3/4 inch lower than the bellhousing lip and pretty much about the same distance off the road as my exhaust system. Something will probably have to take out the lower nose or at least damage it to get close to the bellhousing. You obviously have to watch closely what you drive over in one of these cars.

Also, on an ERA you are going to have to take off more than just the Quicktime bellhousing lip to get it flush to the frame. The bellhousing will have to be "windowed" considerably to truly get it flush to the frame rails. Laying a straightedge across the bottom of the bellhousing bell just behind the flange indicates another 1/4 to 3/8 inch of gap to the frame rail bottom. It will depend a little on where the rear of the transmission sits but I have mine set on the high side of ERAs recommendations.

But judging by the Lakewood bellhousing I use to have on my 66 Corvette, the Quicktime is much more compact and certainly hangs down less.

lippy · #15 (**permalink**) 03-26-2014, 02:18 PM

Surprised I didn't see this thread before. I was tooling around with my car last night and realized the QT bell hangs below the frame rails about an inch, maybe 1.25. I had thought about cutting it down but Brent mentioned the QT's don't need it. For reference, my frame is set at 5.0" front and 5.5" rear (on 15" wheels), and the pan is just about level with the bottom of the frame rails. The bottom of the front air dam is about 3.5", and lower than the bottom of the bell. I don't really want to cut the bell because (1) it changes the integrity of the bell, and (2) I don't want to take it all apart. Have many people had problems with similar clearance?

Grubby · #16 (**permalink**) 03-26-2014, 05:03 PM

I suspect your trans mounting plate is mounted rotated because that is what the OEMs did with the T5s in the 80s and 90s. It was said to help move the shifter toward the driver. This was likely needed in cars that had originally been designed with top loaders or GM Saginaws where the shifter was mounted on the left side of the trans.

John

DanEC · #17 (**permalink**) 03-26-2014, 05:20 PM

It's probably a good precaution to trim it but I didn't bother on mine. If I hit something I will be taking out a lot of other stuff out before the bellhousing - front oil cooler intake, bottom of oil pan, undercar exhaust pipes. Of course hitting that vertical edge of the bellhousing on something hard would probably ring my bell more than hitting any of the other items.

kevins2 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-26-2014, 05:31 PM

Hey Dan,

I hope the "ring my bell" pun was unintended.

Lippy, for a street-driven car, I don't think trimming the flange is a big deal relating to the integrity of the bellhousing. However, I fully agree with your number two statement - it would be a lot of work to take it apart just for that purpose and probably not worth it at this point. Maybe consider doing it when you burn that clutch up!

Kevin

patrickt · #19 (**permalink**) 03-26-2014, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanEC

Of course hitting that vertical edge of the bellhousing on something hard would probably ring my bell more than hitting any of the other items.

I thought the QT did not require trimming. I have the Lakewood, and it is trimmed. When you have a chance, snap a shot of your QT so I can see how low it hangs.

DanEC · #20 (**permalink**) 03-27-2014, 05:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by patrickt

I thought the QT did not require trimming. I have the Lakewood, and it is trimmed. When you have a chance, snap a shot of your QT so I can see how low it hangs.

Patrick - there are several pictures of mine on page 1 of this thread. The pictures were taken when my headers and exhaust pipes were not installed. Mine is about like Lippy's - hanging an inch below the frame rails. But so is my oil pan. If I lay a straightedge on the bottom of my oil pan, extending back to the transmission, the bottom edge of the bellhousing will be above the straightedge - primarily because the bottom of the oil pan slopes down to the rear a little. But being further back betwee the axles there is a greater chance of hanging the bellhousing lip on a speedbump or something like that. On mine, exhaust pipes will hit first and probably push the chasis up enough to avoid the edge of the bellhousing (probably

hopefully).

I had a Lakewood bellhousing on my Corvette for a time and it was a massive thing but I'm not sure it's really a lot smaller in diameter than a Quicktime. I think the more rounded appearance of the Quicktime just makes it look less massive. it would be interesting if someone were able to post the top to bottom dimensions of both for comparison.