The future of Cobras and hobby kit cars?

[Bartruff1]

The original Cobras will continue to appreciate...and other truly unique or historic and rare cars will continue to appreciate.

The market for Cobra Replicas and the Muscle Cars are a demographic bubble and will die off along with the people that buy them.... I guess..

" That is a cool car" does not equate to a future purchase.

The existing cars will be grandfathered for use, but there will be additional regulation, increased cost and lack of demand that will lead to a much smaller market with only a few manufacturers...

Making predictions is risky business, especially if they are about the future.

I never in my wildest dreams would have imagined that a Yenko Camaro or a Boss or a Hemi Cuda would sell for $300,000.

[mdross1]

My belief is after 45 yrs. of watching how the industry goes just like the economy it has it's ups and downs. We just sold an SS Chevelle after owning it 35 yrs. originally paying $2800.00. It's value was up and down over the years but always on the upward swing.

There will always be gearheads the aftermarket popularity shows it all too well. Never thought I would ever see the day where you could buy a new 69 Camaro steel unibody. Whoops! maybe want to rephrase that "replica" 69 Camaro steel body.

Who really knows what the future will bring especially with the brace of politicians we have and the wealthy that own them. They are destroying the middle class classification that helped make this country what it is.

[dallas_]

At least in my mind, there is a difference between the hobby and investment market.

I think there will always be a place for guys to own, build and/or restore cars as a hobby.

Now as far as classic cars for investment purposes, I agree with many who think we may be at or near the top of the market because of demographics.

Only time will tell.

[Igofastr]

Originally Posted by Kobura

I live in California. When I registered my car two years ago, I was told that the allotment of 500 "sequence number" applications for specially constructed vehicles (kit cars and home-made vehicles) had not been used up the previous year and I understand that they have not been used up in the subsequent years. I was told that in prior years, the numbers were used up well before the end of the year. There is also a form of lack of encouragement for SB100 licensing as the DMV seems to be applying closer scrutiny to the steps in the process. Of course, the easy path is to buy a used car that already has the SB100 exemption. Still, the drop in the number of new applications may be indicative of decreased interest in Cobras.

My experience exactly. And I' just finishing doing this for the second time. Seven years ago, SB100 sequence numbers were hard to get, but getting through the process wasn't too bad. Now, it's reversed.

Given the demographics of the country, I expect that the "kit car" and "hot rod" segment of the car culture is on the decline while the "import" and "tuner" segments are on the up-swing.

For the same reason, my great grandfather's horse-racing buggy collecction never turned into the hot investment he thought it would.

[joyridin']

Originally Posted by Igofastr

My experience exactly. And I' just finishing doing this for the second time. Seven years ago, SB100 sequence numbers were hard to get, but getting through the process wasn't too bad. Now, it's reversed.

Given the demographics of the country, I expect that the "kit car" and "hot rod" segment of the car culture is on the decline while the "import" and "tuner" segments are on the up-swing.

For the same reason, my great grandfather's horse-racing buggy collecction never turned into the hot investment he though it would.

Man, I wouldn't get rid of that buggy collection just yet! The way some of the politicians in my state are talking, those buggies could make a huge comeback! They are shooting for 1950, but get a few more campaign donors and we might go back 100 years!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by dallas_

At least in my mind, there is a difference between the hobby and investment market.

I think there will always be a place for guys to own, build and/or restore cars as a hobby.

Now as far as classic cars for investment purposes, I agree with many who think we may be at or near the top of the market because of demographics.

Only time will tell.

While I think predicting the future can be a fool's errand, I also think there's a difference between the "hobby" and "investment" markets.

While prices may fluctuate, the trend will continue up for cars such as the old and older Ferrari's, air-cooled Porsche's, Jaguar's, musclecar era cars such as the Hemi Cuda and of course, the original 1960's era Shelby & AC Cobra's. IMO, they're like art work and paintings.

Hobby and/or kit cars will be around in the future, but the faces and regulations will change and the hobby will be forced to change with it.

[gsharapa]

It's pretty interesting to see all the posts on this subject. I remember back in the mid to late 70s they said the car scene and value of hot rods and muscle cars was declining and dead. Then they popped in the mid 80s and died off a bit in the early 90s. Then a huge up tic occurred around 2000 when the automotive manufactures starting selling cool performance Mustangs, Camaros and such. I think there are a lot of guys and gals out there in their late 20s and 30s that would love to get a Cobra but as mentioned earlier in the post the price has moved up and out of their reach. When you look at Superformance rollers at $60K now and CSX and Kirkham rollers at $95K would think their volumes are falling off quite a bit. The new generation isn't traditional like us so they don't really car about original appearing car or equipment like a 427 FE or webers etc but they do like the modern powertrains like the Coyote etc so I think we are going to continue to see the replica industry turn to that direction. Unless the high end manufacturers are satisfied with their current sales then I would expect to see some of the pricing pull back.

[PSB]

I went to Mecum on Sat with my 6 year old son, mostly just to see the cars. I was a bit surprised at the demographics. I understand the bidders being mostly older guys who've got the money to spend $100K+ on a toy car, but the spectators were mostly 50s+ also. Very few people under 30 there.

I was encouraged by the bids for the three Cobra replicas that were at the auction. A very basic (4 lug wheels, drum brakes, ect) FFR didn't make reserve at $38K. Whoever owns that car messed up big time by not taking the reserve off. Another, nicely build built FFR with some upgrades sold for $38K, and a beautiful ERA went in the low $60s.

[NewYorkGuy]

If there is a decline in hobby kit Cobras, it is because the Cobra is an old toy. It is a "slinky" toy in a Playstation and XBox toy store. The answer is that simple.

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

If there is a decline in hobby kit Cobras, it is because the Cobra is an old toy. It is a "slinky" toy in a Playstation and XBox toy store. The answer is that simple.

Well, then watch here how the slinky spanks the $190000 playstation hahahaha

BTW: There is no decline...whatsoever


Factory Five Kit Cars vs a Lamborghini Gallardo! - HOT ROD Unlimited Episode 27 - YouTube

[G-Pete]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

And I wanna see my wife's daily disgust when she goes into the garage and sees our environment friendly electric car parked next to a gas guzzling, loud, outrageous, in your face Cobra!

......what I see is, soon you have to make choice between the two.

[blykins]

Honestly? I think the market is getting saturated. I see more and more Cobras for sale here on Club Cobra.

I would think that going to the London Cobra show pretty much put the nail in the coffin for me. If you're out and about here in Louisville, you may see one or two Cobras per year out on the road, which makes it fun and intriguing. When you go to a Cobra show and see 300 all at once, it kinda takes the fun out of it....for me anyway.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by G-Pete

Well, then watch here how the slinky spanks the $190000 playstation hahahaha

If that were a 2-event run 'n gun it would go to the '33 Ford

[dallas_]

Originally Posted by blykins

Honestly? I think the market is getting saturated. I see more and more Cobras for sale here on Club Cobra.

Just curious, are you seeing a decline in orders for engines?

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by blykins

Honestly? I think the market is getting saturated. I see more and more Cobras for sale here on Club Cobra.

I would think that going to the London Cobra show pretty much put the nail in the coffin for me. If you're out and about here in Louisville, you may see one or two Cobras per year out on the road, which makes it fun and intriguing. When you go to a Cobra show and see 300 all at once, it kinda takes the fun out of it....for me anyway.

Those 300 Cobras, your guess to how many owners are under 40 yrs old, how many are new builds, and how many are trailer queens(under 5K miles) ?

I dont believe the Cobra replica is too expensive for younger people. I've been to plenty of import/tuner shows and many cars are past $60K. The Import King is the Nissan GTR and that starts at $100K. Young or old, people find the money for the cars they want

[itstock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Those 300 Cobras, your guess to how many owners are under 40 yrs old, how many are new builds, and how many are trailer queens(under 5K miles) ?

I dont believe the Cobra replica is too expensive for younger people. I've been to plenty of import/tuner shows and many cars are past $60K. The Import King is the Nissan GTR and that starts at $100K. Young or old, people find the money for the cars they want

You can drive those imports every day of the week. That is where your logic is flawed when it comes to the younger people. They would need two cars if they had a cobra, or in more simple terms, the cobra isn't anywhere near being practical.

Young people, under 30, generally don't go out and buy $60k plus fun toys that can barely be driven. A $40k bmw? Sure. A new evo? Yep. Maybe a gtr a couple years after landing their fast big job? I've seen that. But not something that you need to garage and can only drive on the nicest of days.

[jhv48]

My take on the future of our hobby is this: If we don't start inviting other groups to our car shows (tuner cars, low riders, etc.) we are going to go the way of the dinosaurs.

If you attend a car show anywhere in the country, what do you usually see? A bunch of Vietnam vet aged guys sitting in beach chairs beside their 50's or 60's era hot rod.

We, (and I'm one of the above age group) need to start including the younger generations and their cars. We can learn about their cars and culture, and share our history and knowledge with them.

I admit, I'm usually bored stiff at a car show! Same cars, year in, year out. I would love to see some youthful blood injected into the hobby. It's there, but it isn't interested in hanging out with a bunch of old farts that just sit around their cars and yell at kids that get too close to the paint.

I've seen some of these tuner cars and they can be awesome. Most have engines and paint jobs that cost more than our completed cars.

If we want the hobby to grow and continue, we must embrace and include the future. Right now it's a we-they type mentality. We could learn from them and teach at the same time. Mutual respect and inclusion is needed if we want the hobby to persist.

Keep going the way it is now and the hobby (as we know it) will die with us.

As an example of a company that is moving into the future, take Factory Five Racing. They made their mark in the kit car business exclusively with the cobra and Daytona replica. However, they saw the writing on the wall and now offer the 818 kit built with Subaru parts (as opposed to mustang parts for the cobra). This car appeals to a more youthful builder and even is being built with all electric power. And FFR has already built 200 of these kits since they were introduced one year ago. I think the hobby is alive and well, but is moving in a more relevant direction.

[itstock]

The younger people have come and go as you please "car meets", much like you old timers had in the glory days of high school in the 70's.

Car shows with trophies have always been for old people.

[JoeT]

Originally Posted by itstock

The younger people have come and go as you please "car meets", much like you old timers had in the glory days of high school in the 70's.

Car shows with trophies have always been for old people.

agreed, show up at a "cars and coffee" event anywhere in the country and most likely the turn out is bigger than any of the saturday car shows you attend

One of the best parts is you show up, have coffee, talk cars and leave anytime you want.

I'm 46 and love car shows....for about an hour, maybe 90 minutes. I usually take one of my daughters. My 12 year old plays a game called

"lets see how many people we see that look happy". Usually the number is less than 10

We go to a couple cruise nights too, mostly to grab an ice-cream. Same dozen cars, same grumpy old farts. We'll grab an ice cream, walk the lot once and head right back out.

If we hit a cars and coffee, every visit is different, the cars range from new VW's and lambos to pre-war stockers and hot rods and everything in between. All car guys (and girls), all proud of the work they've done, and almost all willing to talk cars

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by jhv48

... However, they saw the writing on the wall and now offer the 818 kit built with Subaru parts (as opposed to mustang parts for the cobra) ...

Their '33 Ford is pretty sweet, more adaptation to a broader market.