Carroll Shelby and the "left over frames" saga?

[AL427SBF]

Correction accepted lol.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Does anyone know the facts about Shelby claiming that he 'found' some left over Cobra frames from the 1960-70s? Supposedly in the 1990s, Carroll reproduced Cobras with McClusky LTD. and sold them as 'originals'? Also read an article that Kirkhams were somehow involved? Do these 'reproduced' Cobras sell for high dollar?

I don't see anything wrong with his question - appears to just be trying to fill in some blanks. I have several old cars and thus my own knowledge of Cobras is a little shallow. But I also know a reasonable bit about Corvette and Mopar history and background too. I actually was thinking the CSX 4000 cars were the "found chassis" cars - silly me. Not everyone can know everything about something unless it is their one and only sole passion.

[RodKnock]

Personally, the OP should just perform a search or buy a Registry. The story has been told countless times over and over again. And I'll probably get it wrong, since I'm not a historian.

The Shelby Cobra's in question are considered "completion" cars with CSX3000 (not CSX4000's) numbers, issued with unused Comp s/n's from the 60's. Shelby began re-making 427S/Cs in the early 90's and assigning those numbers and selling each car for $500K. Around the same time when original values were climbing rapidly. There's a tangled story with CA DMV and thus only a handful were built. These cars cannot be legally registered in CA since they were NOT delivered as "component" or "kit car" like they are today by SAI. Theses cars were finished by the manufacturer and delivered to customers completed which is a "no no" in CA, since they do not meet Federal safety and emission standards.

Their value is somewhere between the current CSX 4000/6000 replicas and the real genuine original 1960's Cobra's. They are considered an outstanding hand-made aluminum replica built by Mike McCluskey.

[OnyxRider]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Personally, the OP should just perform a search or buy a Registry. The story has been told countless times over and over again. And I'll probably get it wrong, since I'm not a historian.

The Shelby Cobra's in question are considered "completion" cars with CSX3000 (not CSX4000's) numbers, issued with unused Comp s/n's from the 60's. Shelby began re-making 427S/Cs in the early 90's and assigning those numbers and selling each car for $500K. Around the same time when original values were climbing rapidly. There's a tangled story with CA DMV and thus only a handful were built. These cars cannot be legally registered in CA since they were NOT delivered as "component" or "kit car" like they are today by SAI. Theses cars were finished by the manufacturer and delivered to customers completed which is a "no no" in CA, since they do not meet Federal safety and emission standards.

Their value is somewhere between the current CSX 4000/6000 replicas and the real genuine original 1960's Cobra's. They are considered an outstanding hand-made aluminum replica built by Mike McCluskey.

What you say is true....however....

Shelby did lie about stating he had some left over tubs stashed somewhere. Since the originals were made in the 60's Shelby tried to get California to recognize the paperwork for 60's Cobras. Shelby was asked by the state of California for an affidavit or notarized statement that he did in fact have tubs from the 60's. Shelby didn't want to commit perjury or a false statement so he let things drop. Cobras were being made by McClusky as new Cobras.

One time Shelby got caught with his pants down.


I guess no one wants to get into the details....

"And then there was the time that Shelby said he had found some original, unused 1960's-era Cobra frames in a field. With those original VIN tags he could build new Cobras in the eighties that didn't have to meet the current crash and emission regulations. He was trying to get around some regulatory loophole, but still, what a tale. He had a bit of Smokey Yunick in him—an attitude like, "It ain't cheating if you don't get caught." But who can argue with what he achieved? "


http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...shelby-8868916


At the time to race you had to have 100 autos built in order to race it. So Shelby had serial numbers CSX3001-3100 but could not build the 100 in time. So he had the left over CSX numbers that were never used.


This may not be one of those Cobras....1966 AC Cobra 427 SC for sale | Hemmings Motor News


Now you mention Eleanor that is a whole 'nother can of worms I know just a little about.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by OnyxRider

What you say is true....however....

Shelby did lie about stating he had some left over tubs stashed somewhere. Since the originals were made in the 60's Shelby tried to get California to recognize the paperwork for 60's Cobras. Shelby was asked by the state of California for an affidavit or notarized statement that he did in fact have tubs from the 60's. Shelby didn't want to commit perjury or a false statement so he let things drop. Cobras were being made by McClusky as new Cobras.

One time Shelby got caught with his pants down.


I guess no one wants to get into the details....



This may be one of those Cobras....1966 AC Cobra 427 SC for sale | Hemmings Motor News


Now you mention Eleanor that is a whole 'nother can of worms I know just a little about.

I was just trying to keep it VERY simple so this thread wouldn't devolve into crap. There are threads and pages about this story here on CC and in the SAAC Registry. I just wanted to give the OP a brief summary.

[razerwire]

AL 427 SBF Thank you. nyg thread was intended to get a knee jerk reaction, and due to recent circumstances my knee jerked. I take my 20 lashes and thank you for it. It was over the top.

[Rick Parker]

My Read....The early 90's was nearing a peak of the 1st wave of replicas for the Cobras. There had been MANY makers in and out of the industry some good some BAD and Shelby had returned from his exploits in Africa looking for another adventure and decided much like he did at the original launch of the Cobra to spin another web regarding having many available but with another twist. His Heart foundation became a focus for him and he used it as a benificiary from the atificially swelled up prices ($500K) for which the "newly found continuation cars were going to (hopefully) be sold. As stated California would not proceed with continuation VIN's and shortly the "Bloom was off the Flower" and he had to realign himself with the "REAL" world. That being said; the OEM 60's Cobras have their own flavor which we all cherish, and the current Shelby cars are some of the best available. After all he originated our Hobby.... didn't he?

He was the ultimate Salesman, and everyone here has the hook in their mouth to prove it

[Jamo]

Well, it's becoming a mass of sumthin...

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by razerwire

AL 427 SBF Thank you. nyg thread was intended to get a knee jerk reaction, and due to recent circumstances my knee jerked. I take my 20 lashes and thank you for it. It was over the top.

no harm, no foul, constant vigilance is required to not fall prey to a buffoon's bait.
a quick recap of some of the bait used so far -

• cobras should have the options of a fully loaded caddy
• replica makers should rewicker their websites to cater to the justin bieber and miley cyrus fan club
• sidepipes were an add-on by replica makers to satisfy the hotrodders of the world
• can't beat nissan duracell power for a 100 foot drag race
• online racing with your logitech simulator beats the hell out of driving a V8 powered hotrod with cobra body

... need I say more? looking forward to the next cast to see what sucker bait is on the hook

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

no harm, no foul, constant vigilance is required to not fall prey to a buffoon's bait.
a quick recap of some of the bait used so far -

• cobras should have the options of a fully loaded caddy
• replica makers should rewicker their websites to cater to the justin bieber and miley cyrus fan club
• sidepipes were an add-on by replica makers to satisfy the hotrodders of the world
• can't beat nissan duracell power for a 100 foot drag race
• online racing with your logitech simulator beats the hell out of driving a V8 powered hotrod with cobra body

... need I say more? looking forward to the next cast to see what sucker bait is on the hook

corrections, sir:
These hot rods shaped like a Cobras are 60+ years technology. Who wants to drive today without a radio, cruise control, GPS, Nav systems, heated seats, power steering, automatics?

If JB or Miley were driving and promoting these hot rods shaped like a Cobra, there would be a spike on sales. Go tell Corvette bosses that putting a stingray in a movie aimed at young adults, Captain America 2, doesn't fit with their sales demographics.

gas engines cannot match electric torque. Go tell Ferrari, Porsche, McLaren, BMW, Tesla that they wasting their money on electric powered cars.

I don't own a "logictech" and you don't know anything about video games. If you did, u would have invested money into this industry.

I play racing games because I don't want to sweat in a hot rod without AC or a roof. I love air conditioning too much.

Last I checked, the majority of real cobras did not have side pipes.

Your obsession with me is a bit... weird.

best,
nyg

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Who wants to drive today without a radio, cruise control, GPS, Nav systems, heated seats, power steering, automatics

ME! At least when it comes to a Cobra

And come on, now, video games don't cut it. Simulators either.

Come over for a ride and I'll give you an experience that will make you forget about a love doll, or whatever simulation you speak of

NYG, have you driven a Cobra? I was all set on a Ferrari, Maserati or a Lotus until I drove a Cobra. I haven't looked back at those cars since, unless it was in my rear view mirror.

You owe it to yourself.

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by rodneym

ME! At least when it comes to a Cobra

And come on, now, video games don't cut it. Simulators either.

Come over for a ride and I'll give you an experience that will make you forget about a love doll, or whatever simulation you speak of

NYG, have you driven a Cobra? I was all set on a Ferrari, Maserati or a Lotus until I drove a Cobra. I haven't looked back at those cars since, unless it was in my rear view mirror.

You owe it to yourself.

I have driven a home build FFR and a Backdraft RT3. The FFR was crap, looked and felt cheap. The RT3 was a better drive, well built hot rod.

Look, these hot rods are fantastic on the open road & wind in your hair experience but they are a sweat box in traffic. No roof, no AC, no cup holders, no radio, noisy, crappy seats, gas fumes in your face makes for a lousy ride.

I'd like to return to my original question. In your view, did Carroll Shelby swindle the public with these Cobras from the 1990s?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

I'd like to return to my original question. In your view, did Carroll Shelby swindle the public with these Cobras from the 1990s?

Buy a Registry and all your questions will be answered.

I'd also recommend buying a Honda Odyssey. They come with a built-in vacuum and that's a really a nice option to have.

I'm actually thinking of getting a built-in vacuum for my Kirkham, since I'm constantly getting donut crumbs and spilling coffee on the floor.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

ME! At least when it comes to a Cobra

A/C in car without a top? You're killing the environment anyway.

Radio? The music today sucks. You must listen to the symphony of your chimney-smelling sidepipes.

Cup holders? Real men and women just put their coffee cups between their legs and drive.

GPS/Navi? No iPhone huh? Anyway, real men and women don't need directions. They always know where they're going. It's a Zen thing.

P/S? Come on, you know your flabby arms need some exercise. And Cruise Control? You know your flabby calves and weak tendons need the same help as your flabby arms.

Heated seats? Your butt (gluts in trainer's talk) is your body's biggest muscle. Big muscles aren't wimps. They can take the chill.

Automatic transmission? Real men and women don't flick buttons on a steering wheel or just let the car shift for itself. Think of shifting the transmission manually as mental exercise to ward off the onset of dementia.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

A/C in car without a top? You're killing the environment anyway.

Radio? The music today sucks. You must listen to the symphony of your chimney-smelling sidepipes.

Cup holders? Real men and women just put their coffee cups between their legs and drive.

GPS/Navi? No iPhone huh? Anyway, real men and women don't need directions. They always know where they're going. It's a Zen thing.

P/S? Come on, you know your flabby arms need some exercise. And Cruise Control? You know your flabby calves and weak tendons need the same help as your flabby arms.

Heated seats? Your butt (gluts in trainer's talk) is your body's biggest muscle. Big muscles aren't wimps. They can take the chill.

Automatic transmission? Real men and women don't flick buttons on a steering wheel or just let the car shift for itself. Think of shifting the transmission manually as mental exercise to ward off the onset of dementia.

Man - you just about used up my whole library of cliches in the above. I love it! So true. I have a 427 Corvette with monster motor and no accessories and now my little Cobra without even a radio. Real men don't need no stinking air conditioning or power steering.

[AL427SBF]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

... I am building a hot rod shaped like a Cobra and that is the true. It won't have any Cobra badges and I won't call it anything else but a hot rod, maybe a rat-rod with Mad Max touches ...

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

... I play racing games because I don't want to sweat in a hot rod without AC or a roof. I love air conditioning too much ...

Constantly at war with one's alter ego, must be a biatch!
I wonder which one is going to win out, the gaming wonder or the armchair quarterback

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by AL427SBF

Constantly at war with one's alter ego, must be a biatch!
I wonder which one is going to win out, the gaming wonder or the armchair quarterback

Good thing these hot rods have trunks, need storage for lawn chairs and SAAC books.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

Good thing these hot rods have trunks, need storage for lawn chairs and SAAC books.

Realistically, Volume I is quite a big book, so all you will be able to fit with the book in the trunk are the armrests of the lawn chairs.

[buddyg]

Originally Posted by NewYorkGuy

corrections, sir:
These hot rods shaped like a Cobras are 60+ years technology. Who wants to drive today without a radio, cruise control, GPS, Nav systems, heated seats, power steering, automatics?


Pretty much most of the people who own Cobras


If JB or Miley were driving and promoting these hot rods shaped like a Cobra, there would be a spike on sales. Go tell Corvette bosses that putting a stingray in a movie aimed at young adults, Captain America 2, doesn't fit with their sales demographics.


Who wants a spike in sales I like the fact you don't see a Cobra every day of the week and I sure as heck don't want to drive the same thing as those 2 fools.


I play racing games because I don't want to sweat in a hot rod without AC or a roof. I love air conditioning too much.

You are definitely not in the right place go back to your Prius forum


nyg

You have a lot to say for a guy who doesn't own a Cobra

[NewYorkGuy]

Originally Posted by buddyg

You have a lot to say for a guy who doesn't own a Cobra

You don't own a cobra. Check SAAC registry.

You own a nice hot rod in the shape of cobra.