Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[4pipes]

Will they be delivered with genuine Girling master and slave cylinder rebuild kits? Most of us that owned period English cars know how often they were needed.

[Bernica]

So, did you also discover tool kits and Shelly jacks in the stash?

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Bernica

So, did you also discover tool kits and Shelby jacks in the stash?

Yes. He had parts I had only glimpsed at. Maybe one day we will make those jacks too.

David

[twobjshelbys]

Why can't it be driven on the street: The act of building the vehicle and installing a power train makes one a manufacturer (and to add complexity, Shelby is a manufacturer already). A newly "manufactured" vehicle has to meet the year of MANUFACTURE safety standards - so think air bags, bumpers, stability control electronics, EPA mileage, and all the rest (think Series 1). The way Cobra replicas exist in the wild is building a replica (cake mix) and adding the power train (egg) yourself. Mostly due to CA regs, even Shelby American DEALERS cannot install the power train, and the old way of having a separate entity but owned by the same people (e.g., holding company owning both sales dealership and speed shop to do engine install, even if they aren't fully dedicated to Cobras) are not allowed. CA checks now... Additionally, most owners (and dealers) would not want to make a car that couldn't be sold in CA since it reduces your TAM alot.

This is it in a nutshell, but David can probably make additions.

[LMH]

That surprises me that it would come with an MSO! How do they get CS to sign it I wonder?
Larry

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by LMH

That surprises me that it would come with an MSO! How do they get CS to sign it I wonder?
Larry

By signing them in advance? This was likely planned well in advance.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

By signing them in advance? This was likely planned well in advance.

Story time

My guess is they were signed by Carroll many, many years ago. This project first started in the late 80's/early 90's with Mike McCluskey. Mike told me Carroll was asking some $250,000 for them in the beginning. Quickly, the project got massive publicity (maybe too much publicity from CARB's point of view).

At the same time, Cobra prices skyrocketed. So, Carroll raised the price (and maybe some of the "story" too) to some $500,000--which was around the price of an S/C at the time. However, at such a high price, Carroll only sold a few and Mike ended up with a ton of parts and a few chassis.

Mike did a fabulous job of reverse engineering most of the parts at that time for the project. I remember walking through row after row after row of parts he made and stored above his paint booth in Torrance. I was gathering up parts to restore original Cobras to pay my way through college.

Side note:
DenBeste now owns most of what's left of those McCluskey parts. Carroll also bought a TON of original Lucas/Girling parts for the project. Shelby ended up with them and Shelby has now transferred what is left to DenBeste. DenBeste and Conway are working together on the project. They are a great team.

Back to the story...20 some years ago...

I was on my way to medical school when I heard about a MiG factory in Poland. As you see, I already knew Mike from original restorations I had done. So, I asked Mike to loan me one of those chassis to reverse engineer so I could make an entire car...Mike didn't know I had already started in Poland at the time. We kept that secret for a long time.

Mike said sure and so I asked him to send the chassis up to us in Utah. He said he didn't want to sent the chassis commercial freight because the chassis is/was extremely fragile (true enough). If you bend one of the body tubes it is a major pain to get everything straight again. He said shipping commercially was too risky.

So, right then and there, I jumped in my truck and drove down to LA. I picked up the chassis and drove it back to Utah. Upon arrival I put it on a truck and air freighted it to Poland to reverse engineer. It was an enormous risk, but I wasn't going to be deterred

Here is a picture of that chassis in Poland. The engineer in the photo has sadly passed away. Staszek taught me an incredible amount about engineering, metallurgy, and manufacturing.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Story time

My guess is they were signed by Carroll many, many years ago. This project first started in the late 80's/early 90's with Mike McCluskey. Mike told me Carroll was asking some $250,000 for them in the beginning. Quickly, the project got massive publicity (maybe too much publicity from CARB's point of view).

At the same time, Cobra prices skyrocketed. So, Carroll raised the price (and maybe some of the "story" too) to some $500,000--which was around the price of an S/C at the time. However, at such a high price, Carroll only sold a few and Mike ended up with a ton of parts and a few chassis.

Mike did a fabulous job of reverse engineering most of the parts at that time for the project. I remember walking through row after row after row of parts he made and stored above his paint booth in Torrance. I was gathering up parts to restore original Cobras to pay my way through college.

Side note:
DenBeste now owns most of what's left of those McCluskey parts. Carroll also bought a TON of original Lucas/Girling parts for the project. Shelby ended up with them and Shelby has now transferred what is left to DenBeste. DenBeste and Conway are working together on the project. They are a great team.

Back to the story...20 some years ago...

I was on my way to medical school when I heard about a MiG factory in Poland. As you see, I already knew Mike from original restorations I had done. So, I asked Mike to loan me one of those chassis to reverse engineer so I could make an entire car...Mike didn't know I had already started in Poland at the time. We kept that secret for a long time.

Mike said sure and so I asked him to send the chassis up to us in Utah. He said he didn't want to sent the chassis commercial freight because the chassis is/was extremely fragile (true enough). If you bend one of the body tubes it is a major pain to get everything straight again. He said shipping commercially was too risky.

So, right then and there, I jumped in my truck and drove down to LA. I picked up the chassis and drove it back to Utah. Upon arrival I put it on a truck and air freighted it to Poland to reverse engineer. It was an enormous risk, but I wasn't going to be deterred

Here is a picture of that chassis in Poland. The engineer in the photo has sadly passed away. Staszek taught me an incredible amount about engineering, metallurgy, and manufacturing.

So these are really Continuation Completion cars!
Larry

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by LMH

So these are really Continuation Completion cars!
Larry

LiKE I said, "Resumption Cobras" might be the best description.

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Story time

Mike did a fabulous job of reverse engineering most of the parts at that time for the project. I remember walking through row after row after row of parts he made and stored above his paint booth in Torrance. I was gathering up parts to restore original Cobras to pay my way through college.

As you see, I already knew Mike from original restorations I had done. So, I asked Mike to loan me one of those chassis to reverse engineer so I could make an entire car...Mike didn't know I had already started in Poland at the time. We kept that secret for a long time.

Mike said sure and so I asked him to send the chassis up to us in Utah. He said he didn't want to sent the chassis commercial freight because the chassis is/was extremely fragile (true enough).

So, right then and there, I jumped in my truck and drove down to LA. I picked up the chassis and drove it back to Utah. Upon arrival I put it on a truck and air freighted it to Poland to reverse engineer. It was an enormous risk, but I wasn't going to be deterred

I think I remember reading an article 15 years ago or so, that stated that you copied the frame of your street car, csx3106 or something like that. So it was really McClusky's frame. You sly dog you. Are you and McClusky still friends?

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

I really don't think these MSO's from Shelby were "auto-penned" after Carroll died. Mike (and Bill) told me these were signed by Carroll a long, long time ago.

David

Yeah, I would have thought he would have done(signed) all the MSO's when these cars were originally announced 20 years ago.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think I remember reading an article 15 years ago or so, that stated that you copied the frame of your street car, csx3106 or something like that. So it was really McClusky's frame. You sly dog you.

I had measurements from a few cars. Mostly, CSX3104, CSX3107, CSX2281 and CSX2434 (and others). I used Mike's chassis to confirm the measurements. Many of the measurements had quite a bit of variation in them. Also, Mike's chassis was a copy of an S/C and I didn't have those subtle variations so I needed that chassis as well.

Are you and McClusky still friends?

Oh yes. I talk to him all the time.

Yeah, I would have thought he would have done(signed) all the MSO's when these cars were originally announced 20 years ago.

It's not hard to sign MSO's. I do think they were actually signed by Carroll. I just don't think Joe would use an autopen. It isn't his style.

David

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Anthony

I think I remember reading an article 15 years ago or so, that stated that you copied the frame of your street car, csx3106 or something like that. So it was really McClusky's frame. You sly dog you. Are you and McClusky still friends?

Of course, more recently McClusky lent David a Daytona Coupe frame and body so that the Kirkhams could start building coupes too.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

By signing them in advance? This was likely planned well in advance.

Autopen, read above post...

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Autopen, read above post...

Where do you get the autopen other than you are speculating? I assert that David is probably closer and that these were stashed during the initial McCluskey work.

[fordracing65]

[quote=twobjshelbys;1348724]Where do you get the autopen other than you are speculating? I assert that David is probably closer and that these were stashed during the initial McCluskey work.[/q..

Gary P told me, he said autopen can be used as an official signature...

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by fordracing65

Autopen, read above post...

I really don't think these MSO's from Shelby were "auto-penned" after Carroll died. Mike (and Bill) told me these were signed by Carroll a long, long time ago.

David

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by LMH

That surprises me that it would come with an MSO! How do they get CS to sign it I wonder?
Larry

Autopen, read above post...

[Kit Coyle]

Are we going to finally see proper iron Halibrand eng. co. Torrance,ca marked knock-offs?
There are beautiful stainless steel spinners marked Shelby American Inc. and Cobra
Racing Torrance available, but they are incorrect. Are the proper ones being produced
and, if so, will they be for sale? To me this is a small detail...but a very important one.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

Are we going to finally see proper iron Halibrand eng. co. Torrance,ca marked knock-offs?
There are beautiful stainless steel spinners marked Shelby American Inc. and Cobra
Racing Torrance available, but they are incorrect. Are the proper ones being produced
and, if so, will they be for sale? To me this is a small detail...but a very important one.

Hmmm...if Halibrand would give the OK to use their name I could probably billet them.



David

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by David Kirkham

Hmmm...if Halibrand would give the OK to use their name I could probably billet them.David

Geeez David! Do you go home at night and wonder how you could billet maybe the refrigerator or stove too?