Mystery solved. Shelby Trust to sell Real Cobras

[REAL 1]

David's description was somewhat ambiguous. A "mountain" of parts means different things to different people. He clearly said some parts they used were original some repro. I think it was conceded there is not enough for 47 cars.

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

Get real. Shelby was a farmer, that means he was a hoarder. My grandfather threw the baling wire we took off the hay we fed to the cows and threw it on the pile for enough years that eventually the wire on the top was offset by the rusted melted wire on the bottom. And he NEVER EVER THREW ANYTHING AWAY. Shelby's main warehouse was a disaster area, I can imagine that the other ones truly looked like the barns and sheds from the pickers show.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Get real. Shelby was a farmer, that means he was a hoarder. My grandfather threw the baling wire we took off the hay we fed to the cows and threw it on the pile for enough years that eventually the wire on the top was offset by the rusted melted wire on the bottom. And he NEVER EVER THREW ANYTHING AWAY. Shelby's main warehouse was a disaster area, I can imagine that the other ones truly looked like the barns and sheds from the pickers show.

Shelby was a farmer. True, however, he was also a very astute businessman. However, I am not suggesting that Shelby organized any "stash" he may have had in an inventory fashion.

It is my understanding that DenBeste and the other "principals" of this new project have possession of the "stash" either physically or constructively. To the best of my knowledge I do not believe DenBeste is an unsophisticated "hayseed" just having come in from mowing the north forty. Neither are his partners in this "project" to my knowledge.

Call me silly or crazy but I would think there would be an organization and inventory of this "stash" they are using to construct $500,000.00 vehicles.

Maybe its juts me.

Maybe "Bob" can shed some light on this "stash" if he ever comes back.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Shelby was a farmer. True, however, he was also a very astute businessman. However, I am not suggesting that Shelby organized any "stash" he may have had in an inventory fashion.

It is my understanding that DenBeste and the other "principals" of this new project have possession of the "stash" either physically or constructively. To the best of my knowledge I do not believe DenBeste is an unsophisticated "hayseed" just having come in from mowing the north forty. Neither are his partners in this "project" to my knowledge.

Call me silly or crazy but I would think there would be an organization and inventory of this "stash" they are using to construct $500,000.00 vehicles.

Maybe its juts me.

Maybe "Bob" can shed some light on this "stash" if he ever comes back.

Yep, I think it's just you . So now you are allowing as how the parts exist, but you're insisting that they come here and disclose exactly what they have? What would entitle you or anyone to that information except the buyer of the vehicle?

They already told me they don't have enough parts to finish all cars exactly the same. Earlier ones will have more, later ones less. I think David said the same thing.

It seems that the vehicles are likely built to an order, so a "speculation" car seems unlikely. Should they build one I would agree that info should be part of the info in the For Sale package.

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

[ACademic]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

15,000+ views and 24+ pages of mostly drivel, and out of the mystery and mayhem comes one sentence that pretty much nails it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by ACademic

15,000+ views and 24+ pages of mostly drivel, and out of the mystery and mayhem comes one sentence that pretty much nails it.

For a replica?

I have a difficult time believing that the owner(s) of said vehicles will get a "build sheet." I just don't see anyone, with the possible exception of an employee of Kirkham, doing an well-organized and accurate accounting on what is being installed. We're not talking about an auditor from Price Waterhouse sitting along side the installer "ticking off" work papers as each nut and bolt is installed.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

For a replica?

I have a difficult time believing that the owner(s) of said vehicles will get a "build sheet." I just don't see anyone, with the possible exception of an employee of Kirkham, doing an well-organized and accurate accounting on what is being installed. We're not talking about an auditor from Price Waterhouse sitting along side the installer "ticking off" work papers as each nut and bolt is installed.

I was told that there will be one. Call Denbeste if you don't believe me. You see, that seems to be the thing noone else here (I count 20 odd participants) has done. Of course, you might find real answers and why would anyone want that to get in the way of spreading obfuscation and doubt.

And there are two sources for the vehicles.

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yep, I think it's just you . So now you are allowing as how the parts exist, but you're insisting that they come here and disclose exactly what they have? What would entitle you or anyone to that information except the buyer of the vehicle?

They already told me they don't have enough parts to finish all cars exactly the same. Earlier ones will have more, later ones less. I think David said the same thing.

It seems that the vehicles are likely built to an order, so a "speculation" car seems unlikely. Should they build one I would agree that info should be part of the info in the For Sale package.

If you want to know write a check for 500K and get the build sheet for your car.

P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

I never said there wasn't a stash of stuff that Shelby had. One of my issues with this project was whether they have done a master inventory from which build parts are drawn and whether the master inventory is certified by someone who is recognized in the industry as being original NOS parts.

It matters not a wit to me whether they do this or not. Moreover, this is not super secret stuff. We are not dealing with "trade secrets". A lot of people know what original parts a Cobra had. Why not pubish the list of their inventory from which these "CSX 3000's" are being built with and the particulars of their stash and who has certified to the genuineness of the parts? They are after all asking for 1/2 a million for each aren't they? That's a lot of hay.

Further, I would never pay $500,000.00 for a Continuation Cobra (which is what it really is) at this time merely because it is stuffed with a lot of NOS parts. The rolling chassis is $160K. Show me the value of the rest of the build in NOS or original parts putting it $250,000.00 above the best Continuation Shelby. I don't think they can because the real money on these cars is based on the canard and apocryphal fact that they belong to and are part of the CSX 3000 series as I understand what they are doing here. If I am wrong please enlighten us. I believe these cars will be scoffed at by owners of originals and continuation series alike as purporting to be something they are definitely not part of. I think they will not be well received by SAAC. Who knows how the next Registry will deal with these cars. This is my opinion of course.

Moreover, I may not even be able to drive the damn things.

My Shelby has plenty of NOS and original parts and it is not purporting to be anything other than what it is, a Continuation Shelby. Moreover, there are some NOS parts I'd rather not have. Why have a cast iron diff when you can have a nearly identical diff that is aluminum alloy and lighter and just as strong? Why would anyone want original Lucas wiring?!!!! OMG I like my electrics to work. Thanks. My nuts and bolts are fine. I don't need original nuts and bolts. Why do I need a copper radiator when an Aluminum Fluidyne is much lighter and cools just as well if not better. Again, the early Shelby Aluminum Continuation Cobras had a lot of the stuff on David's list.

Now give me an original chassis that was never used with an original CSX 3000 stamping on it and I'll be willing to spend $500,000.00 for that car even with repro parts built to original spec.

Finally, I think you are selling Ol' Shel short. I think he was a lot smarter and knew more than you are giving him credit for.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Further, I would never pay $500,000.00 for a Continuation Cobra

I have extolled this in this forum. If I were to spend ~500K on a Cobra it wouldn't be a 427, original or replica. I had a wussy 427 Windsor, and never felt I was doing the engine justice. Remember the FE engines were also marine and dry land pump engines, intended for 24x7 high RPM constant load operation. That made them perfect race engines. But on the street the 427 roush kept asking me to "run it harder". I can't even imagine what a cammer would feel like (although I'd like to drive Jay's).

If I were to spend that much money on one now it would be an original 289 street car. That is approximately what they sell for. If I were to buy a replacement replica it would also be a 289 family car.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I have extolled this in this forum. If I were to spend ~500K on a Cobra it wouldn't be a 427, original or replica.

If I were to spend that much money on one now it would be an original 289 street car. That is approximately what they sell for.

Tony, you're late to the party, and behind on original 289 street Cobra prices by about half, sorry to say.

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I can't even imagine what a cammer would feel like (although I'd like to drive Jay's).

Cammers are like trying to tame a grizzly.

They are fun and maddening to drive at the same time. No matter what you do the rear tires spin. Glad a learned a soft touch with my feet from all those years playing the piano.

David

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Yep P.S. I can guarantee Shelby didn't know what he had. A friend of mine was responsible for building an inventory of his personal belongings and was working on it when I saw the material in the main facility in Gardena. There was stuff there that they just shook their heads at. A 60's something Lincoln that noone knew why it was there (they thought maybe CS stored it for someone and never got it back. It may have had a sentimental (to CS) but he never told anyone. CS's own Cobra was being worked on in a shop that was messier than mine. On the other hand, Cleo's side was spic-n-span

The Lincoln was likely a 67 convert. It was allegedly the "last' Lincoln convertible produced and was part of the settlement for Ford's purchase of the "Cobra" name. A Lincoln convert and one dollar, US, American greenback currency bought the trademark.

[patty442]

Afraid but here goes. My name is Bob Gingold. I live in Miami, Florida for 35 years. I have owned my Cobra for over 40 years. My wife's name is Patty. She is very understanding. I have alot of NOS 60's original parts. Good night, Bob

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by patty442

Afraid but here goes. My name is Bob Gingold. I live in Miami, Florida for 35 years. I have owned my Cobra for over 40 years. My wife's name is Patty. She is very understanding. I have alot of NOS 60's original parts. Good night, Bob

Welcome, and welcome back...
No need for trepidation...
No one here bites, the worse they can do is bark every now and then...

[Dimis]

Oh brother... duplicate message...

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by patty442

Afraid but here goes. My name is Bob Gingold. I live in Miami, Florida for 35 years. I have owned my Cobra for over 40 years. My wife's name is Patty. She is very understanding. I have alot of NOS 60's original parts. Good night, Bob

Thank you sir...that's all we needed.

My name is Ron Barsamian and I live in Fresno. I know you have lots of Cobra stuff, but do you have any spare water?

Stick around...

[David Kirkham]

Originally Posted by patty442

Afraid but here goes. My name is Bob Gingold. I live in Miami, Florida for 35 years. I have owned my Cobra for over 40 years. My wife's name is Patty. She is very understanding. I have alot of NOS 60's original parts. Good night, Bob

I have spoken at length with Bob. He is legit. He knows more things about original Cobras and their history than about anyone I have ever spoken to. Some of his stories on the early history are pretty cool. I'll let Bob tell them.

David

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

David's description was somewhat ambiguous. A "mountain" of parts means different things to different people. He clearly said some parts they used were original some repro. I think it was conceded there is not enough for 47 cars.

You would think with such parts they would have been neatly organized and inventoried.

I know there are parts hoarders out there and it wouldn't surprise me that some have stacks upon stacks of OEM parts hiding all over the place. There's a person on the Porsche forum with a warehouse full of parts for the 1990's 964's and 993's. He's posted pics of the warehouse, but he's definitely not a "I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya" kind person.

Heck I wouldn't mind having a nice OEM Cammer just because and I know there are some fellas with several of them. And I don't think any of these parts hoarders have fancy inventory control systems.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I know there are parts hoarders out there and it wouldn't surprise me that some have stacks upon stacks of OEM parts hiding all over the place. There's a person on the Porsche forum with a warehouse full of parts for the 1990's 964's and 993's. He's posted pics of the warehouse, but he's definitely not a "I could tell ya, but I'd have to kill ya" kind person.

Heck I wouldn't mind having a nice OEM Cammer just because and I know there are some fellas with several of them. And I don't think any of these parts hoarders have fancy inventory control systems.

When I was a kid in the early '70s I worked for a guy that was a Ford fanatic. When Ford decided to pull their Muscle Parts program he went friggin' crazy and dragged me to dealerships with a big truck, sometimes late at night.

It was like a frenzy of guys cutting deals with dealerships and cleaning out the stock as fast as they could. I personally helped him load up two Boss 429's and two Cammers, all still on the factory pallets. I remember stacking cams still in the cardboard tubes like firewood. Tunnel Port heads, manifolds 427 S/O blocks, you name it. We Built racks at his shop and stacked everything up. It looked like a parts store when we were done.

I remember him telling me "Bernica, this sh*t is going to be worth a fortune some day".

That was in the Pacific Northwest, outside of Seattle.