Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Al G

And you've been completely innocent in all this? You've done a fair share of name calling, probably more than Evan. Posting the same question over and over again does nothing but drive your post count up. Now you think you're a guardian of the forum?

If and when you ever finish your replica please post lots of pictures so we can see how many fake Cobra badges you have on it. Maybe you'll be one of those who puts on fake Shelby American manufacturer tags also. Cant wait to see it and start the criticism.

Joe's Garage is a classic forum troll. Review his posts - none, not one single, nada, zip, post has contributed anything to the betterment of the Cobra community.

You'd think that someone with a "kit" in his garage would be all over the scratch builder's forum. Nope.

If Jamo really wants to mete out justice then the proper answer is not to ban anyone, but to shut down this topic, all clones of it, and to forever lock all such future discussions. Make a sticky pointing to these few topics, and lock new topics with a pointer to the sticky so people can refer to them.

Why?

Everything that can be said has been said. Both sides have presented their arguments over and over again, and no one is going to change their minds about their position. This couldn't be any more of a political discussion than one on politics.

And nothing from this group of failed behaviour modificationalists will change the description of my Cobra as a "Geniuine Shelby Cobra". Neither will the remaining 1000+ owners who either don't know about this place or do know and write it off for what it really is: The world's largest biased Cobra site.

[Joe's Garage]

What they say I said ...

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... Joe'sGarage now's sees himself and his band of bullies as a "guardian of the forum"? Who appointed you a guardian of anything? ...

Originally Posted by Al G

... Now you think you're a guardian of the forum?...

What I actually said ...

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

... All of us are the guardians of this FORUM ...

Moving on ...

Originally Posted by Paul F

One often needs to think before posting. So before you post on this thread, listen to this entire video. Once you are done listening to it, consider your thoughts about what you want to say. Write them down on a piece of paper. Wad it up. Throw it in the garbage can ...

In about 10 hours we'll see if you hit the garbage can or the "submit reply" button

Originally Posted by Xack

... I think most here can agree to say you have an original that was built some time after that model year was produced ...

Nope, original only means one thing ...

o·rig·i·nal
adjective
1. present or existing from the beginning; first or earliest.
2. created directly and personally by a particular artist; not a copy or imitation.

noun
1. something serving as a model or basis for imitations or copies.

[Xack]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

What they say I said ...





What I actually said ...



Moving on ...



In about 10 hours we'll see if you hit the garbage can or the "submit reply" button



Nope, original only means one thing ...

o·rig·i·nal
adjective
1. present or existing from the beginning; first or earliest.
2. created directly and personally by a particular artist; not a copy or imitation.

noun
1. something serving as a model or basis for imitations or copies.

Not that I disagree, I would say that in order to find common ground. That is Evan's definition, that is his car is a continuation. Your point stands with logic and correction. Therefore, if Ford or any motor company made cars as continuations, they are copies, not "original" and therefore cannot be counted among the true originals. And I will add that they may not even be true to the original as other makers. Perhaps, even inferior copies. Nonetheless, if it is a continuation, the best can be hoped for is that its made after the production run. Decidedly not original. Very much like them, but not.

[Dimis]

Oh brother...

Dear Joe come lately,

Thanks for your help... I fixed the commentary as per your recommendation. But now it is a tragedy with a sad ending, no longer a comedy... Shame... Hopefully one of the protagonists can grow, and see the light.

--

Here you go:

3 guys each walk into a bar.
Each of them order a glass of Coke.

The first guy, Rod gets a Pepsi-cola.

The second guy, Mr CSX3, a Coca-cola in a bottle, with a red label, you know... the stuff we all know as the ORIGINAL, the AUTHENTIC, the REAL thing.

The third guy, Evan, gets a Coke Zero, proclaiming that HIS drink is the AUTHENTIC and REAL coke, because it's produced and licensed by the COCA-COLA company the original founders and creators.

Not really giving a chit, but figured it might be nice to offer a helping hand, a fourth and fifth and sixth gent, all chime in with a - "Pssst, hey Evan, you know your Coke aint REAL?" to which Evan replies - But the facts, law and registry say so...

Now these guys have been playing this game for some years, mostly harmless nonsense and mostly without malice... They are friends, despite the distance, quick to help each other along the way. But just lately, a ill mannered new voice is trying to be heard... However this voice is obtuse, comes with hostility. People soon tire of the voice, and add it to their ignore list... What a shame...

Badda-boom!


--

Now Joe, while you're on this personal quest to police others, and right the wrongs on what people have posted on the internet, can I kindly suggest you get started with wikipedia... have fun!

...and while you're there, ask yourself these question, why the need to be so hostile to others...?
In nearly 300 posts, have you had a nice thing to say to anyone about anything? Or given someone here a helping hand?


Enjoy your evening & good luck with wikipedia

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Oh brother...

Dear Joe come lately,

Thanks for your help... I fixed the commentary as per your recommendation. But now it is a tragedy with a sad ending, no longer a comedy... Shame... Hopefully one of the protagonists can grow, and see the light.

--

Here you go:

3 guys each walk into a bar.
Each of them order a glass of Coke.

The first guy, Rod gets a Pepsi-cola.

The second guy, Mr CSX3, a Coca-cola in a bottle, with a red label, you know... the stuff we all know as the ORIGINAL, the AUTHENTIC, the REAL thing.

The third guy, Evan, gets a Coke Zero, proclaiming that HIS drink is the AUTHENTIC and REAL coke, because it's produced and licensed by the COCA-COLA company the original founders and creators.

Not really giving a chit, but figured it might be nice to offer a helping hand, a fourth and fifth and sixth gent, all chime in with a - "Pssst, hey Evan, you know your Coke aint REAL?" to which Evan replies - But the facts, law and registry say so...

Now these guys have been playing this game for some years, mostly harmless nonsense and mostly without malice... They are friends, despite the distance, quick to help each other along the way. But just lately, a ill mannered new voice is trying to be heard... However this voice is obtuse, comes with hostility. People soon tire of the voice, and add it to their ignore list... What a shame...

Badda-boom!


--

Now Joe, while you're on this personal quest to police others, and right the wrongs on what people have posted on the internet, can I kindly suggest you get started with wikipedia... have fun!

...and while you're there, ask yourself these question, why the need to be so hostile to others...?
In nearly 300 posts, have you had a nice thing to say to anyone about anything? Or given someone here a helping hand?


Enjoy your evening & good luck with wikipedia

It wasn't funny the first time. Standup comedy is hard. Don't quit your day job.

[JBCOBRA]

Jamo is a wise person. He may be enjoying this as much as us. Evan is epic.
Ha! Gets a lot of bandwidth too. From a Professional point of view it sure would be fascinating to put Evan on "the couch"

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by JBCOBRA

Jamo is a wise person. He may be enjoying this as much as us. Evan is epic.
Ha! Gets a lot of bandwidth too. From a Professional point of view it sure would be fascinating to put Evan on "the couch"

I don't know... Classic Inferiority complex comes to mind... and wait for it... it aint Evan

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by Dimis

I don't know... Classic Inferiority complex comes to mind... and wait for it... it aint Evan

Got a problem?

[JBCOBRA]

Do you know me?

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by JBCOBRA

Do you know me?

If you're asking me... Nope, not that I'm aware.

Kindly, it aint directed at you, apologies I gave you that impression
I kind of agree with most all your post.

[Jamo]

Now that a fair number of you have beat each other up...everyone STFU for awhile.

...or folks will simply start disappearing with no notice.

[Jamo]

Ok...now let's get back to having whatever discussion folks really think is necessary about real vs. replica in a reasonable manner...no personal or demeaning attacks by or against anyone.

I picked up a new watch over the weekend, so here's fair warning that I will bore you to death about it if this gets off track again.

Thanks.

[rodneym]

New watch, Jamo?

New to you... as in a vintage, manual wind chrono?

[Paul F]

One often needs to think before posting. So before you post on this thread, listen to this entire video. Once you are done listening to it, consider your thoughts about what you want to say. Write them down on a piece of paper. Wad it up. Throw it in the garbage can. Then, get on with your life.

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI[/ame]

[jhv48]

Originally Posted by Paul F

One often needs to think before posting. So before you post on this thread, listen to this entire video. Once you are done listening to it, consider your thoughts about what you want to say. Write them down on a piece of paper. Wad it up. Throw it in the garbage can. Then, get on with your life.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkdmOVejUlI

It was effectively dead until YOU revived it.

[Steve Gallegos]

Hi Guys, I own a Backdraft, Lic # "65 ssnake", I tell people it's a replica of a 1965 427 Shelby Cobra. I am a bad person?

[Xack]

Holy Molly Evan,
Are you seriously saying that non Shelby owners are beating you up? Either you have a Shelby Cobra or you don't. You know, if you insist, I think most here can agree to say you have an original that was built some time after that model year was produced. Who cares? If you do that's all that matters. I believe you may be one of those people who cannot be wrong no matter if its only a tiny wrong.

You can moan and complain about being beat up. But please admit the fact you absolutely love the attention your getting. This high you have right now will not be soon forgot or equaled.

[thorconstr]

I built a Kirkham Cobra in 2004. The same conversation, same people, was going on then. Kirkham bodies and frames, Shelby badging and "Continuation" paperwork. As far as I'm concerned an "original" was built between 1962 and 1967, the "continuation" is a Kirkham bodied copy of the original. If someone wants to think their "continuation" is any more a Cobra than any of the ERA's Kirkham's, Classic, etc, have at it. I loved the Kirkham and it would blow the doors off an original. Wish I still had it. All that matters is that you are happy with your Cobra, that's it!

[Jaydee]

Another funny expression is blueprint. A blueprint is not the original drawing.
JD

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by thorconstr

I built a Kirkham Cobra in 2004. The same conversation, same people, was going on then. Kirkham bodies and frames, Shelby badging and "Continuation" paperwork. As far as I'm concerned an "original" was built between 1962 and 1967, the "continuation" is a Kirkham bodied copy of the original. If someone wants to think their "continuation" is any more a Cobra than any of the ERA's Kirkham's, Classic, etc, have at it. I loved the Kirkham and it would blow the doors off an original. Wish I still had it. All that matters is that you are happy with your Cobra, that's it!

A short spin on the merry go round from hell before bed.

-SAI constituted in 1961/62.
-Original Shelby Cobras are rebadged AC's. AC used subcontractors in many cases to fabricate body panels.
-SAI has been in existence since that time but dormant for many years.
-SAI became active again with Carroll Shelby at the helm in 1990's.
-Continuation Shelby Cobras are rebadged Kirkham's in many cases. Not all. Some others were sourced for aluminum bodies such as Kimmons.
-SAI fits out their Cobras with their own suspension bits, brakes, wire and plumb the cars.
-SAI has rights to use the Cobra name. Legally. No other can use that mark or -Shelby related marks including CSX vins. These restrictions applied to AC back in the 1960s also.
-Federal regulations and safety regulations appear on the scene beginning in late 1960s and continue to pile up continuing to current day.
-Original Cobras would never be able to be sold in the same manner as between 1962 and 1968 even if production continued uninterrupted and the design and specifications remained unchanged. They would have to follow the same process as the current production Cobras in order to be sold to the public today.
-SAI began production of current generation Shelby Cobras to exact or near exact spec of their original series in 1990s. Current production Shelby Cobras become available again in aluminum and glass.
-Original series are collectibles and very expensive. Current series more accessible and affordable but still at a large premium over "replicas" which term has become understood and used in common parlance to refer to cars merely looking like a Shelby Cobra but not really a Shelby Cobra. General public not really aware of current production or continuation series. General public knows of only the original series which they naturally see as the REAL Cobras.
-New series of Shelby Cobra creates some confusion as to how to refer to and consider these new Shelby by both owners and SAAC. No one expected or foresaw a new second series of Shelby Cobras.
-SAAC issues statement sometime near and prior to 2004 stating their position. LONG before litigation SAAC has with Shelby in 2008. Statement makes clear that second series are genuine Cobras but not part of original series. Only difference between original Shelby and current production is years of manufacture. They are not considered "replicas" by SAAC as that term has now been misused and now commonly understood.
-SAAC 4th Edition of World Registry carries that statement position forward in 2008/9 and further explains common misuse of term "replica" as defined by Websters. SAAC acknowledges the widespread misuse and incorrect meaning now commonly used but says can't put the "toothpaste back in the tube". Point being non Shelbys are not "replicas" but merely cars that look like Cobras but really not. A "bootleg" to use a euphemism. SAAC notes that technically only the continuation Cobras are "replicas" i.e. true replicas as defined by Websters, i.e. an item or work reissued by the original artist or maker.
-SAAC, due to the fact the "toothpaste" can't be put back in the tube now adopts and uses the now commonly misused meaning of "replica" for the category of non Shelby cars except those that qualify as genuine "Cobras" according to SAAC. They now use "replica" as a term to refer to cars that are not Cobras but have the general appearance of one that have various underpinnings.
-SAAC sets forth those cars that it accepts as genuine "Cobras". There are different brands and categories from AC's (which have sub-categories), to Shelby's (which have subcategories) to Kirkham. Original Shelby's are clearly at the top of the pecking order. However, even within originals there are pecking orders e.g. completely original cars, partially reconstructed etc...
-SAAC in its comprehensive Registry provides very logical, well reasoned, reasonable and fair statements as to the current production Shelby's.
-SAAC's now current website statement still acknowledges SAI produces "current generation Cobras".
-SAAC's forum discussions segregate CSX Cobras by series e.g.2000, 3000, 4000 and 7000 and 1000 and provide a separate forum for "replicas and tributes.
-The "common guy's" "understanding" of what he considers to be a "real" Shelby Cobra is has no bearing in fact or reality on what is or isn't a real Cobra except of course as to that particular individual and what HE chooses to accept in his own mind as one.


Facts.

Hey, you guys have fun with this one.