Why does every thread here devolve into a "Real" vs. "Replica" argument?

[Jamo]

Ned...you don't realy truly expect folks to read before responding, do you?

I figure read 1 or 2 sentences and make up their minds that the poster either agrees or disagrees with what they themselves have said...they might scan the rest of a post, but actually read and achieve full comprehension...naw. That went out with handwritten letters delivered in regular mail where folks have a day or so to gather their wits before responding.

This internet stuff moves way to fast for any reasoned contemplation.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

... Of course the Continuation Series are the true replicas of the original car
... Some of them continue his original car very closely and are "true replicas"

Originally Posted by ERANJ

... Of course the Continuation Series are the true replicas of the original car

No argument here, hold that thought boys, don't muddy it up by making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Note the conundrum you get into when using adjectives like "genuine", "real" or "authentic", without a qualifier like replica to go with it.

gen·u·ine
truly what something is said to be; authentic
synonyms: authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable

re·al
not imitation or artificial; genuine
synonyms: genuine, authentic, bona fide, historical, honest-to-goodness

au·then·tic
of undisputed origin; genuine.
synonyms: genuine, real, legitimate, the real McCoy, the real thing

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

No argument here, hold that thought boys, don't muddy it up by making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Note the conundrum you get into when using adjectives like "genuine", "real" or "authentic", without a qualifier like replica to go with it.

gen·u·ine
truly what something is said to be; authentic
synonyms: authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable

re·al
not imitation or artificial; genuine
synonyms: genuine, authentic, bona fide, historical, honest-to-goodness

au·then·tic
of undisputed origin; genuine.
synonyms: genuine, real, legitimate, the real McCoy, the real thing

Looks as though the points has been made and agreed by many as to whether the term Real applies. So what's your objective or diversionary tactic?

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

No argument here, hold that thought boys, don't muddy it up by making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Note the conundrum you get into when using adjectives like "genuine", "real" or "authentic", without a qualifier like replica to go with it.

gen·u·ine
truly what something is said to be; authentic
synonyms: authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable

re·al
not imitation or artificial; genuine
synonyms: genuine, authentic, bona fide, historical, honest-to-goodness

au·then·tic
of undisputed origin; genuine.
synonyms: genuine, real, legitimate, the real McCoy, the real thing

Interesting quoting from quoting of another poster. Hmmm?

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

No argument here, hold that thought boys, don't muddy it up by making it more complicated than it needs to be.

Note the conundrum you get into when using adjectives like "genuine", "real" or "authentic", without a qualifier like replica to go with it.

gen·u·ine
truly what something is said to be; authentic
synonyms: authentic, real, actual, original, bona fide, true, veritable

re·al
not imitation or artificial; genuine
synonyms: genuine, authentic, bona fide, historical, honest-to-goodness

au·then·tic
of undisputed origin; genuine.
synonyms: genuine, real, legitimate, the real McCoy, the real thing

I prefer to stick with the definition, not the synonyms. They are there for those who can't comprehend the definition.

My car is built by a company called Shelby. The MSO says the model is Cobra. It is what the MSO claims it to be. That seems to match the definitions of genuine, real and authentic. Of course it is not an original 1965 Cobra and I never claim it to be. The so-called Cobra replicas manufactered by a number of companies all fail the genuine, real and authentic definitions if they claim to be Shelby Cobras.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Al G

I prefer to stick with the definition, not the synonyms. They are there for those who can't comprehend the definition.

My car is built by a company called Shelby. The MSO says the model is Cobra. It is what the MSO claims it to be. That seems to match the definitions of genuine, real and authentic. Of course it is not an original 1965 Cobra and I never claim it to be. The so-called Cobra replicas manufactered by a number of companies all fail the genuine, real and authentic definitions if they claim to be Shelby Cobras.

Carroll Shelby refers to the CSX4000/6000 series cars as Component Cobras. Why isn't "Component Cobra" in your vocabulary?

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Carroll Shelby refers to the CSX4000/6000 series cars as Component Cobras. Why isn't "Component Cobra" in your vocabulary?

Al Gs comment is spot on exactly what others have said this morning. You seem to be making the case of alignment for the Real argument all on your own thank you. Think we're well past this point.

[Al G]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Carroll Shelby refers to the CSX4000/6000 series cars as Component Cobras. Why isn't "Component Cobra" in your vocabulary?

It is. I was responding to your definitions of genuine, real and authentic.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by Al G

... The MSO says the model is Cobra. It is what the MSO claims it to be ...

Does the MSO say the model is a Cobra or Component Cobra?
Is Component Cobra listed anywhere on the MSO, or is there any indication that what was purchased was an incomplete car?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Does the MSO say the model is a Cobra or Component Cobra?
Is Component Cobra listed anywhere on the MSO, or is there any indication that what was purchased was an incomplete car?

Yes, I believe "CSX6000 Component Series" is on the Shelby MSO. CSX owners please correct, if I'm wrong.

[rodneym]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, I believe "CSX6000 Component Series" is on the Shelby MSO. CSX owners please correct, if I'm wrong.

RK, you're 99% correct.
"CSX6000 SERIES COMPONENT VEHICLE" is written 2x on the MSO.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Yes, I believe "CSX6000 Component Series" is on the Shelby MSO. CSX owners please correct, if I'm wrong.

You are quite correct RodKnock, the MSO is quite clear that these are component vehicles. Seems Al G and others are "taking liberties" with what the MSO says, no surprise.

Originally Posted by Al G

I prefer to stick with the definition, not the synonyms. They are there for those who can't comprehend the definition.

My car is built by a company called Shelby. The MSO says the model is Cobra. It is what the MSO claims it to be. That seems to match the definitions of genuine, real and authentic. Of course it is not an original 1965 Cobra and I never claim it to be. The so-called Cobra replicas manufactered by a number of companies all fail the genuine, real and authentic definitions if they claim to be Shelby Cobras.

What the MSO actually looks like -

"STATEMENT OF ORIGIN FOR A CSX4000 SERIES COMPONENT VEHICLE"

Trade Name: Shelby Cobra 427
Series: CSX4000
Model Year: 1965

"The CSX4000 Series Component Vehicle is sold by Shelby American, Inc. without engine or transmission"



The point is obvious, if you are going to quote your MSO then quote it, you own a CSX4000 Series or CSX6000 Series Component Vehicle.

[CompClassics]

I don't want to side track this article but I thought I should correct a statement about Goodwood not allowing anything but original period vehicles. There are so many Kirkham based 289 Cobras at Goodwood that some thought the name of the race should be the "Kirkham Cup".

[John McMahon]

Have not been on CC in some time and I was surprised to see that this thread from 2004 is still active....wow!

Talk about legs!

[REAL 1]

Originally Posted by John McMahon

Have not been on CC in some time and I was surprised to see that this thread from 2004 is still active....wow!

Talk about legs!

John you ol' rascal you.

[Trevor Legate]

Just scanned the last couple of pages as I enjoy suffering. Two points: Tis true that replicas/fakes/clones etc are common at the Revival and we ain't just talking Cobras! Plus the new-build E-types use bodywork and engines made by outside contractors and were assembled at Jaguar. On my planet, this makes them even less 'original' - even Lord March takes the line that they will not be receiving invites to race at the Revival as "we do not permit replicas"!! Such fun.....

Now - back to the twilight zone

Ned - 6107 is still racking up the miles as a near-daily driver. I bumped into car & owner at Hawk Cars recently and the battery decided to die. I guess if your 289 Sports fails, it did it at the right place. Great timing.

[RodKnock]

I'm looking at my Kirkham "Certificate of Origin" and I don't get it. My CO states that I bought a new "1965 Replica Roadster." No where does it say "Cobra" and then it has that word "replica" in its description.

I'm confused. How come my Kirkham "1965 Replica Roadster" is listed as a Kirkham Cobra in the SAAC World Registry. The SAAC World Registry contains replicas? Really?

And nearly every alloy CSX 4000/6000 built has, at a minimum, a Kirkham "1965 Replica Roadster" body and chassis and, in the case of the CSX 50th Anniversary models, the "whole kit (pun intended) and caboodle" is Kirkham.

Huh.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I'm looking at my Kirkham "Certificate of Origin" and I don't get it. My CO states that I bought a new "1965 Replica Roadster." No where does it say "Cobra" and then it has that word "replica" in its description.

I'm confused. How come my Kirkham "1965 Replica Roadster" is listed as a Kirkham Cobra in the SAAC World Registry. The SAAC World Registry contains replicas? Really?

And nearly every alloy CSX 4000/6000 built has, at a minimum, a Kirkham "1965 Replica Roadster" body and chassis and, in the case of the CSX 50th Anniversary models, the "whole kit (pun intended) and caboodle" is Kirkham.

Huh.

Yep, my comment earlier - "how do you un-replica a replica" meaning Kirkhams delivered to SAI

[jhv48]

And to go along with that one, now we have to call continuation cars "component cars".

Will the madness never end?

[ERANJ]

Originally Posted by jhv48

And to go along with that one, now we have to call continuation cars "component cars".

Will the madness never end?

Good one.