Engine Option (Just For Discussion)

[RodKnock]

IMO, there are no exact copies or replicas.

The Kirkham's (and Shelby's by extension) are on record that they designed their body with subtle cues that vary from an original 1960's Cobra. They designed and built them that way for a reason, so they would never be confused with an original. Also, the Kirkham alloy body is .059" thick whereas the original is/was .050" thick. These are just the basics.

Even the latest turnkey recreations, from Shelby, called "Competition Cobras," from Denbeste, Drew Serb & Kirkham, while close with all sorts of NOS and reproduction parts won't be exact copies. These are the facts and they're indisputable.

The knowledgable and experts of the marque will be able to tell the difference. Schmucks like me? Not so much.

Back to Cobra engines. Cammer all the way!

[blykins]

Sorta proves my point if you have to get the dial calipers out and measure aluminum thickness because the .009" difference isn't discernable by eye or hand....

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Sorta proves my point if you have to get the dial calipers out and measure aluminum thickness because the .009" difference isn't discernable by eye or hand....

No, it doesn't prove your point. Of course, you would use that one particular point from my post and ignore the rest to form your hypothesis. Have seen an original side-by-side with a Shelby/Kirkham replica? I have, a few times.

If you've seen the two (original, Kirkham/Shelby) side-by-side, it's obvious to the more-than-casual observer. Besides cues of the exterior body, materials such as seats, shocks, wheels, knobs, gauges, batteries, roll bars, exhaust, rivets, etc. It goes on and on.

[blykins]

A Kirkham or a CSX is going to be more "exact" than a FFR. That's what I'm getting at.

A replica is a replica. When you have to sit down and argue about the body material thickness, the exact grade of leather, or the type of rivet used, then we get back to straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. Considering no two original CSX cars were built exactly alike, I think there has to be a little "tolerance" there....but the tolerance isn't so +/- that it includes SBC engines and Viper V-10's. Shelby had his hand in the Dodge Omni GLH-S as well, but that doesn't give us license to all put 4-cylinders in our Cobras....but that's some of the logic that gets passed around here.

Put a picture of an original beside the picture of a new Kirkham, beside the picture of the "Cobra" with the VW engine and maybe all this will hit home. There are replicas......and there are kit cars.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

A Kirkham or a CSX is going to be more "exact" than a FFR. That's what I'm getting at.

A replica is a replica. When you have to sit down and argue about the body material thickness, the exact grade of leather, or the type of rivet used, then we get back to straining the gnat and swallowing the camel.

Put a picture of an original beside the picture of a new Kirkham, beside the picture of the "Cobra" with the VW engine and maybe all this will hit home. There are replicas......and there are kit cars.

You can call them anything you want, copies, reproductions, replicas, clones, tributes, kit cars, etc. I don't really care. It's all the same to me. Folks invent/use new adjectives to make themselves feel better. BUT, there aren't any exact copies. Period.

"More exact"? "More authentic"? That's some funny use of the English language.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by blykins

A Kirkham or a CSX is going to be more "exact" than a FFR. That's what I'm getting at.

A replica is a replica. When you have to sit down and argue about the body material thickness, the exact grade of leather, or the type of rivet used, then we get back to straining the gnat and swallowing the camel. Considering no two original CSX cars were built exactly alike, I think there has to be a little "tolerance" there....but the tolerance isn't so +/- that it includes SBC engines and Viper V-10's. Shelby had his hand in the Dodge Omni GLH-S as well, but that doesn't give us license to all put 4-cylinders in our Cobras....but that's some of the logic that gets passed around here.

Put a picture of an original beside the picture of a new Kirkham, beside the picture of the "Cobra" with the VW engine and maybe all this will hit home. There are replicas......and there are kit cars.

By your "logic" that you're passing around here, 90%+ of the cars owned by members here are lowly kit cars. Outside of the tiny minority that own alloy bodied "replicas", all of the rest are composite bodied cars with various mixes of chassis, suspension and miscellaneous other departures from the original cars that disqualify them from being replicas. In that case, WTH difference does it make what powertrain we choose when we're all driving "kit cars" anyway?
You decide that engine brand is the deal breaker, but to others it might be wheelbase, stance, appearance, suspension, rollbars or any of a dozen other criteria. Or maybe it doesn't matter at all. Like everyone else you're welcome to your opinion - just don't try to push it as the gold standard criteria of judgement.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Buzz

You decide that engine brand is the deal breaker, but to others it might be wheelbase, stance, appearance, suspension, rollbars or any of a dozen other criteria. Or maybe it doesn't matter at all.

Yep - The dog leg shifter... I mean, if it doesn't have one of those, then it aint worthy of joining in with all the reindeer games!


Blykins does raise a valid point... When does the mutation morph it away from being a Cobra?

May be if we all were pressed on the matter, we'd probably agree him, and Evan on this point... A dune buggy with a cobra body is not (strictly speaking), any more a replica to a Cobra, as it is a butchered example of a VW Beetle.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Yep - The dog leg shifter... I mean, if it doesn't have one of those, then it aint worthy of joining in with all the reindeer games!

I'll have to agree with you there. Small block Cobras, slabsides and FIA's, aren't Cobra replicas. Big block bodies only.

[blykins]

Originally Posted by Buzz

By your "logic" that you're passing around here, 90%+ of the cars owned by members here are lowly kit cars. Outside of the tiny minority that own alloy bodied "replicas", all of the rest are composite bodied cars with various mixes of chassis, suspension and miscellaneous other departures from the original cars that disqualify them from being replicas. In that case, WTH difference does it make what powertrain we choose when we're all driving "kit cars" anyway?
You decide that engine brand is the deal breaker, but to others it might be wheelbase, stance, appearance, suspension, rollbars or any of a dozen other criteria. Or maybe it doesn't matter at all. Like everyone else you're welcome to your opinion - just don't try to push it as the gold standard criteria of judgement.

I haven't decided anything. I'm just merely making a point that everyone's ego, pride, and mood are not letting them get.

If someone said to you, "Buzz, I'm giving you the task of making a copy of this '67 427 Corvette. I'm going to go buy the engine for it, what do you want me to pick up?" What would you tell them? A Viper V-10?

That's all I'm saying. There are guys in Club Cobra Land that want to try and duplicate the originals as closely as they can. For them, the engine choice (and everything else) should be obvious. On the other hand, there are also guys in Club Cobra Land that are satisfied with not duplicating the originals. For them, they can reach for whatever engine, transmission, rollbar, wheels, etc., that they want and feel comfortable with it.

Frankly, I don't give a rat's booty which side of Club Cobra Land you're on. It's your own prerogative. I'm not here to dog someone's personal choices or opinions, but just make a very simple point.

Now what is a kit car? IMO, if your car came in a thousand boxes and you had to hand assemble each and every part, then you have a kit car. If your car came as a rolling chassis and you had to stab an engine in it, I can't see that as being a kit. The general population (the non-savvy out there) see a kit car as something you bought and put together yourself.....or that '86 Fiero with a Lambo body kit.

[Buzz]

Thanks for clearing that up ol' buddy! So now if I put a supercharged LS in a Superformance roller, you won't call it a kit car, right?

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

Now what is a kit car? IMO, if your car came in a thousand boxes and you had to hand assemble each and every part, then you have a kit car. If your car came as a rolling chassis and you had to stab an engine in it, I can't see that as being a kit.

Then there are lot of FFR's and ERA's that are kit cars and not replicas, by your definition. And that makes no sense to me. We all have kit cars and replicas. By SAAC's definition and by the definition of most of the states in US, as their laws relate to registration.

How few or how many boxes does it take to move from kit car to replica? Honestly, I don't see your point at all.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by blykins

There are replicas......and there are kit cars.

Then I own both. I bought a Kirkham roller and had a shop install an engine and transmission, which I had purchased separately. And then I registered it under the CA SPCNS (kit car) program. And, it looks kinda like a Cobra, at least to me.