Roush 588 cu in R motor

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

Sounds like Dimis is "feeling the Bern......ica"

Sorry, inside USA joke.

Ah Rodknock my man, the more you post, the more you sound like a "septic tank"

Sorry, inside AUS joke.



PS: I saw a 930 with a LS7 and wondered... I wonder if he'd sell it to me for a discount

[750hp]

Originally Posted by Pappy

Am getting ready to buy a new Superformance Cobra Mark III and want the Roush 588R motor package installed.

Does that mean you've already ordered the motor, or is there still an opportunity for us to recommend other engine builders?

[Pappy]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Have you given thought to tires? As the saying goes, that's where the rubber hits the road and should not be overlooked. Again, IMHO

The widest NITTO 555R's that the wheels will take.

[rodneym]

Here's a bit of "counterpoint" on this "non biased Cobra site"...

I've owned 2 Roush motors, a 402R and a 468SRFE. I personally put 2k of the SPF/402R's 5,500 miles before selling. It was leak free and reliable - a really nice motor. The second was the 468FE (the original motor in my Kirkham). I put on 3,500 miles. It was also leak free (), started every time on the first try, etc. What I didn't care for was the Avenger carbs Roush is so fond of but Roush's bit's and pieces give Kirkham a run for their money.

When I had my Twin Paxton motor built, I had Tom Lucas refresh the old Roush before I sold it (I wanted to sell it in good faith, having been refreshed by an FE expert). I asked Tom, "So what's the deal with Roush?" His reply was that the components were name parts. His issue was that they left "power on the table" by not porting, and there was certainly an extra cost for the name. They also have/had a warranty that created a standard. I understand there are people who have had warranty issues but that's certainly not the norm. Other builders had to compete with said warranty and ... they're not not all here with us now. Also, it could certainly be argued that the extra cost for the Roush would be made back on resale, just ask Lance Stander.

The real issue for me is that if there's a problem, Roush won't be as responsive as the independent. It doesn't mean they're gonna leave you in the weeds, though. And for every Roush story there is, there's just as many from the little guys. In fact, my choice of Roush over an "FE god" (with the Kirkham's first motor) was due to quite a few first hand accounts from owners! Having Tom Lucas or Joe Felciano's cell number and having them pick up on a Sunday means alot and there in lies the rub. Roush's business model isn't as conducive to a good builder/customer relationship as a Barry, Brent, Tom, George, etc. and a relationship is what you want. For a crate motor, it certainly doesn't mean Roush is persona non grata.

[csx4910]

As the not so lucky owner of serial number 1 of the 511 Roush I can say the first 2 years were Hell. That being said, after getting sorted nad many trips back and forth I can say if I had to do over I would seriously look at a quality builder building a similar size motor for half the cost.

On the other side, now that the motor has some miles (about 3000)and properly sorted, it runs like a beast and I have no problems for quite a while since the initial couple of years. Do I love my motor - Yes, would I buy another Roush product again that was brand new just released - NO WAY. That being said the 588 has been out for a while I would think they worked some bugs out but you could build a carb'd 588 from another builder at half the price

[Ace23]

By all means if you want a 385 series big block then get it and don't look back.....personally I wish I had the 385 platform over my stroked Windsor. Do yourself a favor and reach out to Lance with Craft Performance or Brent Lykins with Lykins Motorsports. Both of these engine builders are forum sponsors and will be able to build you a more reliable combination than the Roush offers and it will be a lot less expensive as well. I don't have a Roush but have heard enough stories to keep me away.....you should also add Ford Motorsport crate motors to this list. We have a local SPF coupe with a 427 ford crate engine that took a dump that was practically new. Spend your money with a reputable builder it will be a much better outcome.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Pappy

Am getting ready to buy a new Superformance Cobra Mark III and want the Roush 588R motor package installed.

Does anyone on here have the setup? Would like some input.

Thanks. Pappy

Pappy, no offense but have you ever driven a 427 Cobra with an FE and say, 450hp or more before? Just asking to get an idea where your head is at and where you are trying to go.

[patrickt]

What's the wait time for a Superformance Mark III with a Roush?

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by patrickt

What's the wait time for a Superformance Mark III with a Roush?

Dunno about the engine, but chassis build is 60 days plus shipping. I suspect Roush can have the engine waiting for you.....

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Dunno about the engine, but chassis build is 60 days plus shipping. I suspect Roush can have the engine waiting for you.....

That's pretty fast. We ordered a Jeep from the factory and it took almost that long to get it.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Dunno about the engine, but chassis build is 60 days plus shipping. I suspect Roush can have the engine waiting for you.....

Now days, that's like "off the shelf" timing! Pretty amazing. I would have thought much longer for the chassis. Engine? I'm sure they are a stock item.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Engine? I'm sure they are a stock item.

Makes it all the easier to return it when it breaks.

[Bernica]

I guess what I'm waiting for is someone to stand up and cover your engine removal and replacement costs. Again, only if they are found at fault! That is not only time consuming but expensive as well.

[Pappy]

Originally Posted by Bernica

Pappy, no offense but have you ever driven a 427 Cobra with an FE and say, 450hp or more before? Just asking to get an idea where your head is at and where you are trying to go.

Not to worry, I've NOT driven anything on the street with LESS than 500 horse since the late 60's and that was probably my first 289's. My last experience's were a 780 ft lbs torque 2010 Shelby GT500 Super Snake, and the last was a 2013 Shelby GT500 converted to a Super Snake by Tim Barth in Rockford, 24lbs boost delivered 890 ft lbs rear wheel torque, everyday driving was 18lbs boost and 700+ rear wheel torque. Notice I don't bother with HP figures, those figures don't twist the rear axles. Nothing like tool'n along about 75, pull the tranny down a gear or two, nail it and in 5 seconds the speedo needle race's past 150mph.

[Chilibit]

Originally Posted by Bernica

I guess what I'm waiting for is someone to stand up and cover your engine removal and replacement costs. Again, only if they are found at fault! That is not only time consuming but expensive as well.

I have one of the Roush motors. Initially it liked oil. After a bit Dennis Olthoff pulled the motor for Roush, shipped it to them, they replaced the heads among other things (they are a bit tight lipped) and returned it to Dennis. He reinstalled it. I went to NC to collect it. No charge--for anything. Zero. Better to not have a problem but Roush proved to be professional. Today (50k miles in) I would seek out Brent Lykins because I prefer a local builder. Brent has class. So does Roush. And while I am at it, so does Olthoff Racing.

[blykins]

I'm at $20500, but I'd be at 604 cubic inches and would make about 750-775 hp on pump gas, with a hydraulic roller. Would peak the horsepower at around 6000. Very mild.

Ford Motorsports block, Scat crankshaft, Callies rods, Trick Flow A460 heads, etc, etc. High quality stuff.

Complete engine from oil pan to Quick Fuel Dominator carburetor. All pulleys, brackets, alternator, starter, and a pack of adult diapers.

Obviously, less expensive engines are available. I could build a 630 hp 385 series engine for probably around the $14000-15000 mark.

[Ace23]

Originally Posted by blykins

I'm at $20500, but I'd be at 604 cubic inches and would make about 750-775 hp on pump gas, with a hydraulic roller. Would peak the horsepower at around 6000. Very mild.

Ford Motorsports block, Scat crankshaft, Callies rods, Trick Flow A460 heads, etc, etc. High quality stuff.

Complete engine from oil pan to Quick Fuel Dominator carburetor. All pulleys, brackets, alternator, starter, and a pack of adult diapers.

Obviously, less expensive engines are available. I could build a 630 hp 385 series engine for probably around the $14000-15000 mark.

Brent when you say Ford Motorsports block are you referring to the A460 block? Does the parts and labor to stroke these engines out to 604 CI run pretty much the same price of going 512, 534, 557 ect or is there a point at which you run into some machining expenses? Why the Trick FlowA460 heads over the Kasse P51 and lastly what size headers and side pipes would you have to run in a cobra? When I decide I am ready to cut my life short I will make sure I have you build one of these. I doubt Perry would even participate in the install

[blykins]

Yes, the A460 block.

With a factory block, you can only go to about 550-560 cubic inches safely. The A460 block will go to a 4.600-4.625" bore, which is considerably larger than the capacity of a factory block (usually max around 4.420-4.440").

Otherwise everything costs the same....same crank, same rods, same piston cost, etc.

IMO, the A460 head is simply a better head and that will show up in the potential while porting. The P51 head will top out somewhere around 400-420 cfm, while the A460 head will go 500+.

Header size needs to be 2" to 2-1/4".

IMO, the BBF is *the* pinnacle of performance in the Ford engine line-up. The shop where I dyno my engines had a 600 inch mud race engine on the dyno the other day. 1030 hp, with over 900 lb-ft of torque. Naturally aspirated.

[Pman1961]

Go ahead and have Brent build you one Ace23. I'll install but you're riding shotgun for the first 2,000 miles!!

[STL Mark]

Pappy,

I had a 385 series engine in my Superformace. It was bored and stroked to 588. It made 650 HP, and 720 Tq. I loved it. You will too. It pushes a bit in the corners. and nailing the loud pedal at any speed or gear was always fun...and a bit dangerous. But, get all of the RT suspension upgrades and you'll be fine.

Just do it.

BTW, Brent's figures and prices seem to be outstanding and excellent. If I was doing it again, he would be my first call.

All the best.