1965 427 s/c Factory Five on eBay

[Bernica]

And here is an example on how they do it when you are caught!

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzBFwFos-o0[/ame]

[RodKnock]

Ya, but it's got a side-oiler. That's got to count for something. Probably could pay your attorney fees to get you out of prison.

Sorry, that humor again.

[Joe's Garage]

I would say we have came full circle - the car has been trashed, the broker has been trashed, and now the owner has been trashed.

All because the car is priced a little too high in most people's minds (including mine). But it does show the type of person involved in this hobby, and you wonder why the general public makes a strong distinction between owners of originals vs. owners of a "cheap kit car replicas"? It's all in how you carry yourself, sh!ting on people begets being sh!t on.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I would say we have came full circle - the car has been trashed, the broker has been trashed, and now the owner has been trashed.

All because the car is priced a little too high in most people's minds (including mine). But it does show the type of person involved in this hobby, and you wonder why the general public makes a strong distinction between owners of originals vs. owners of a "cheap kit car replicas"? It's all in how you carry yourself, sh!ting on people begets being sh!t on.

I don't think the owner or the broker have been trashed by having an honest discussion of the car as it is presented. Although, both need to do their homework and know exactly what they have on their hands.

As for the car, it's been judged on it's own merits, and been found lacking in quality vs it's asking price vs the rest of the market.

Bill S.

PS: Doing a search of the forum will show that I've had some of my personal FFR's picked apart when they came up on the market. I don't look at it has a negative, as it viewed every comment and tweaked the car accordingly until it was of sufficient quality to sell for what I wanted.

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I would say we have came full circle - the car has been trashed, the broker has been trashed, and now the owner has been trashed.

All because the car is priced a little too high in most people's minds (including mine). But it does show the type of person involved in this hobby, and you wonder why the general public makes a strong distinction between owners of originals vs. owners of a "cheap kit car replicas"? It's all in how you carry yourself, sh!ting on people begets being sh!t on.

Interesting post. When first reading I admit to a pretty negative reaction, however, I agree that nothing here gives cause to disparage the owner, current seller, or vanguard.

However, wouldn't you concede that the text of the original listing, combined with posting said listing on a discussion forum invited people to look closer that they would normally? Who wouldn't reasonably expect a careful look when posting for discussion at a place frequented by experts (not me) with which he may have had prior conflict?

The reality is the people find a conflict interesting and when thousands of intelligent people see reason to look closer, they soon notice other things. In this case they have noticed some potentially serious issues that any potential buyer needs to be aware of. If I were the owner or seller, I'd be saying thank you, pull the car, and work to quickly resolve issues prior to putting back on the market. We can only hope that the owner and seller see the positives in what they have learned rather than getting angry.

I do think you are off base on the whole real vs replica thing. It's its own animal and has nothing to do with this.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

I would say we have came full circle - the car has been trashed, the broker has been trashed, and now the owner has been trashed.

All because the car is priced a little too high in most people's minds (including mine). But it does show the type of person involved in this hobby, and you wonder why the general public makes a strong distinction between owners of originals vs. owners of a "cheap kit car replicas"? It's all in how you carry yourself, sh!ting on people begets being sh!t on.

I read Joe's post and didn't quite understand the point of it.

If it's true that using a 1965 Ford Mustang VIN on a modern FFR replica and registering it is illegal, then isn't this really warning a potential buyer (aka Consumer Watch)? This is "All Cobra Talk" not the seller's actual advertisement. And we're discussing a car for sale.

And I totally agree with Mike, WTF does this have to do with original versus replica owners? Where's the connection? Connect the dots for us. BTW, you don't think an original 1960's Cobra, and the seller/owner, wouldn't be critiqued both on the merit of the car and its seller? As an example, there are some questionable original Cobras that have been critiqued here too. The one that comes quickly to mind was CSX3016 (one of them, at least I think) that was sold by Exotic Classics out of Syosset, NY about 3 years ago.

CSX3016 for sale through Exotic Classics, Syosset NY


"General public"? Well, the "general public" thinks my car is Corvette/Jaguar/MG. Why do I car what they think about my Cobra? I'm not buying what you're selling.

[Bernica]

IMHO, this is an open forum called "All Cobra Talk" where we all share observations, opinions and advice. If the seller didn't want that, then should have just posted the car in the classifieds section. Not that that would have eliminated all of the critique, but would have avoided a lot of it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Bernica

IMHO, this is an open forum called "All Cobra Talk" where we all share observations, opinions and advice. If the seller didn't want that, then should have just posted the car in the classifieds section. Not that that would have eliminated all of the critique, but would have avoided a lot of it.

IMO, it's bad form to comment in a seller's classified ad. One of the Porsche forums allows this and sometimes it turns into a crazy free-for-all. What really irks me is that some people get upset at asking prices, if they perceive them to be too high, well above market. Sellers can ask any price they want, the market will speak. And, of course, with Porsches, there's been a rising market for several years. But all this price discussion is done in the seller's ad, which I think is inappropriate.

However, if someone wants to start a thread on a car in a discussion area, then what's wrong with a discussion?

[NewYorkGuy]

funny how the regular know-it-all's here speak for the cobra community.

the price of the car is the price. take it, make offer, or skip. it does feel people here have personal agendas. egos.

the same people who mocked Evan's cobra CXS4206 asking price $240K++ for a kit car.

Y'all big boys with big wallets. who really cares what Mr Becker is asking for the FFR cobra. It's not your car or your money.

[Joe's Garage]

Anyone who believes Mr. Becker posted this car here for "discussion" is spinning it to suit their own ends.

Originally Posted by stephen_becker

Real 427 side-oiler motor -

Shelby Cobra 427 s C Shelby | eBay

Clearly he was letting people know there was an FFR with 427 side-oiler for sale and nothing more. Agreed, it was the "wrong forum" for that - as was quickly stated early on, but that does not change the intent of the post. This thread is a good example of mob mentality, it only took one and then the pile on was underway.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

Anyone who believes Mr. Becker posted this car here for "discussion" is spinning it to suit their own ends.



Clearly he was letting people know there was an FFR with 427 side-oiler for sale and nothing more. Agreed, it was the "wrong forum" for that - as was quickly stated early on, but that does not change the intent of the post. This thread is a good example of mob mentality, it only took one and then the pile on was underway.

First, there's some valuable information discussed here in this thread for any potential buyer considering this FFR. Paint, VIN, fuel line and yoke issues, IIRC.

Second, isn't it nice that you an express an opinion (not held by me) in an Internet discussion forum?

And, at least you dropped that whole "original vs. replica" tangent. Not sure where you were going with that line of thinking.

[Joe's Garage]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

... at least you dropped that whole "original vs. replica" tangent. Not sure where you were going with that line of thinking.

The post stands as written, if you don't get it I'm not going to explain it to you.
Let's see if the poster who called the car out on that VIN defends his position, sometimes being a follower and jumping on the band wagon isn't such a good idea

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by Joe's Garage

The post stands as written, if you don't get it I'm not going to explain it to you.
Let's see if the poster who called the car out on that VIN defends his position, sometimes being a follower and jumping on the band wagon isn't such a good idea

Your earlier post makes no sense to me and that has to be why you don't want to explain it.

As for "jumping on the bandwagon," that's certainly your opinion. Folks have pointed out issues with the car. You see that as "jumping on the bandwagon." I call it "Consumer Watch."

[Bernica]

Mr Becker is a respected member here and is no "newbie". I want to think that he posted on "All Cobra Talk" for a reason, but that's just me.

[twobjshelbys]

There's a lot of misinformation here too.

The VIN is correct. Do your homework.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

There's a lot of misinformation here too.

The VIN is correct. Do your homework.

Please explain. Maybe we all missed something. Wouldn't be the first time!

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

There's a lot of misinformation here too.

The VIN is correct. Do your homework.

Instead of the usual drive-by and telling everyone that they're wrong, without any details, yes, please explain the misinformation and the VIN.

How does the VIN of a 1965 Mustang legally used on an FFR? Inquiring minds want to know.

[twobjshelbys]

You're all the world's greatest experts. The hot rod world has been doing this for years. The vin is from the original donor. The factory five is a skin is a serial number not a vin. Even a Hennessy venom supercar carries the original donor vin. There is a porsche replica at barrett ackson this week that is titled as a vw.

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

The vin is from the original donor. The factory five is a skin is a serial number not a vin.

Ok, stop for a moment and reread what you wrote:

First, Factory Five is not a skin over another body (like a VW kit car or dune buggy), they have their own chassis,and their own body. As such, they sell the chassis/body kit with their own MSO, listing their own VIN number (originally in a FFRxxxx), then going to a 17 digit format.


Second: Factory Five does not use, nor has ever been engineered to use a 1965 Mustang as a "donor".

Third: A 1965 Mustang VIN has been assigned to the car, whether that is or was legal in the original owner/builders state is all that really matters. That, and if the car it was used off of still exists, as the VIN database is now a shared database across the state lines.


Just thought you needed to know that.


As for the rest, I see no mob mentality here, what I see is a car posted to the ALL TALK COBRA subforum, which is now being discussed in greater detail than the broker who is selling it might have wanted. Yet, it was his choice to post it in this section, so he must have wanted us to discuss it in one way shape or form.

I also see where the seller, and several others made an attempt to make it about anything else but the car, thread drift has occurred, as usually does, but at that same time the facts about the car, good, bad, and everything in between are coming to light as more eyes are being steered towards it. That is what this forum is about, others sharing their knowledge (or lack of in some cases), and their experience. To stifle such discussion, call people names, or make veiled threats because you do not agree with what is being posted seems a bit childish in nature and goes against the whole purpose for a site like this, which is to share knowledge and experience. Whether you can agree with everything posted in up to you, but so is how you interact with others.

Now, if you want to discuss the car vs the opinions and knowledge that has already been posted, and you disagree with what has been posted about the car and the quality of the build, or the parts used vs the price being asked, let's have at it. Nothing better than a good quality discussion to get the day going.

Bill S.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

Ok, stop for a moment and reread what you wrote:

First, Factory Five is not a skin over another body (like a VW kit car or dune buggy), they have their own chassis,and their own body. As such, they sell the chassis/body kit with their own MSO, listing their own VIN number (originally in a FFRxxxx), then going to a 17 digit format.


Second: Factory Five does not use, nor has ever been engineered to use a 1965 Mustang as a "donor".

Third: A 1965 Mustang VIN has been assigned to the car, whether that is or was legal in the original owner/builders state is all that really matters. That, and if the car it was used off of still exists, as the VIN database is now a shared database across the state lines.


Just thought you needed to know that.


As for the rest, I see no mob mentality here, what I see is a car posted to the ALL TALK COBRA subforum, which is now being discussed in greater detail than the broker who is selling it might have wanted. Yet, it was his choice to post it in this section, so he must have wanted us to discuss it in one way shape or form.

I also see where the seller, and several others made an attempt to make it about anything else but the car, thread drift has occurred, as usually does, but at that same time the facts about the car, good, bad, and everything in between are coming to light as more eyes are being steered towards it. That is what this forum is about, others sharing their knowledge (or lack of in some cases), and their experience. To stifle such discussion, call people names, or make veiled threats because you do not agree with what is being posted seems a bit childish in nature and goes against the whole purpose for a site like this, which is to share knowledge and experience. Whether you can agree with everything posted in up to you, but so is how you interact with others.

Now, if you want to discuss the car vs the opinions and knowledge that has already been posted, and you disagree with what has been posted about the car and the quality of the build, or the parts used vs the price being asked, let's have at it. Nothing better than a good quality discussion to get the day going.

Bill S.

^^^Exactly.

I'd be curious in which states, if any, where you could register a brand new kit car with a 1965 VIN, which was my original question several posts ago. This FFR kit car is NOT like building a 1957 Porsche Speedster replica with a donor VW chassis, like Vintage Speedsters builds here in CA. As they say, apples and oranges.

And if I'm a prospective buyer, how do you check to see if the 1965 Ford Mustang VIN was not a stolen car? I don't want to be the one to make an appointment with the CHP and ask them to verify it.