1965 427 s/c Factory Five on eBay

[Bernica]

My neighbor is with the CHP and this morning I ran into him as it was his day off. So I explained this "hypothetical" matter to him and asked his opinion.
He is also a car guy.

Without hesitation he said that if a car is hand-built with no VIN, then the State inspects it for safety, proper operation etc and can issue a VIN to the car if all proof (including receipts) is provided that it is truly a specially built vehicle. He said they do it with home made trailers all the time, but not too often with actual cars.

He also confirmed that the VIN (if present) has to go with the chassis. Similar to bringing in a re-bodied VW or Porsche, but the VIN HAS to match the chassis.

He said there is NO WAY I could roll in with a VIN on a custom built chassis without an MSO. When I asked him "what if it was a VIN from say, a Mustang" he said that as long as the whole chassis can be verified to be a Mustang it might work. Then he laughed and said that if it's some custom frame / chassis and has a Mustang VIN that's in the database and no MSO "Then you've got a real big problem".

[mikeinatlanta]

Originally Posted by Bernica

My neighbor is with the CHP and this morning I ran into him as it was his day off. So I explained this "hypothetical" matter to him and asked his opinion.
He is also a car guy.

Without hesitation he said that if a car is hand-built with no VIN, then the State inspects it for safety, proper operation etc and can issue a VIN to the car if all proof (including receipts) is provided that it is truly a specially built vehicle. He said they do it with home made trailers all the time, but not too often with actual cars.

He also confirmed that the VIN (if present) has to go with the chassis. Similar to bringing in a re-bodied VW or Porsche, but the VIN HAS to match the chassis.

He said there is NO WAY I could roll in with a VIN on a custom built chassis without an MSO. When I asked him "what if it was a VIN from say, a Mustang" he said that as long as the whole chassis can be verified to be a Mustang it might work. Then he laughed and said that if it's some custom frame / chassis and has a Mustang VIN that's in the database and no MSO "Then you've got a real big problem".

So what you are saying is that your neighbor has some sort of real/replica attitude and is also piling on with mob mentality? Some people...

[mikeinatlanta]

I think talking about just the car is a great idea, so I did a little more looking at the photos. Trying to not hit the nit picky items. Does this about cover it?

Of note:
I don’t see a means of filling the cooling system, and no tank.
It has a power rack. Many consider that a big upgrade for a driver.
Exposed unfinished edges above the dash. High end builds rolled the edges.
Fuel and brake line issues need to be resolved.
Drum rear brakes with donor four link. (Fox mustang, not 65).
Donor front suspension (Fox mustang, not 65)
Oddly installed quick jacks
Paint issues with stripe alignment
Nothing to hold trunk open, however, trunk does appear to have been improved a bit since Vanguard sale.
No oil cooler. The empty hole at least needs a faux cooler.
The Vanguard pics show the drive shaft with dangerously little length into the tranny. In the ebay pics, this issue may have been corrected. Warrants a close look.
Shifter different from Vanguard photos. Different tranny may account for drive shaft issue being corrected.
Vin stamp may not be “original” FFR stamp.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I've been reading this thread for entertainment, as I have no dog in this debate. However, when I got to the part about it having a Mustang VIN number, bells and whistles went off. As stated above, FFR issues its own MSO so every FFR can be registered and insured as what it is. Evidently someone bypassed the legal (at least here in CT) route to register this car. The question would be 'why?'. A lazy quick fix to avoid being inspected by DMV, or in the absolute worst-case scenario, a stolen car registered and stamped with a junked/missing Mustang title. As time goes by, all states will have interacting databases, and this doesn't even consider someone insuring this car with a classic car policy, as the company would certainly spot this VIN discrepancy. As stated before, this is a commentary forum, not a used car for sale page. Any info here will certainly be dissected by the sharpest Cobra replica minds around. I learn something new almost every time I log on (and I've been around a while), and of course witness lots of pissing too. This FFR Cobra is certainly an 'avoid at all costs' car unless the original MSO goes with it. Just my opinion.

[ZOERA-SC7XX]

I don't know where this 'Mob Mentality' thing came from. Many here on this board are absolutely helpful of anyone building, buying or thinking of buying a replica Cobra. There may be a little sarcasm from time to time, but overall there is lots of help dealing with build issues and DMV/registration issues. When I brought my car through CT DMV ten years ago, the inspector first spent one hour with all my paperwork, including the ERA MSO. After that he spent another hour inspecting the car (over, under around and through). He even broke my stones about it being loud although it passed with flying colors. Late in the inspection I mentioned it had a Jaguar-based rear, he warmed up some stating he once had an E-Type jag roadster. Either way, I would never try to bring a 'grey-papered' Cobra through DMV.

[rodneym]

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

[mikeinatlanta]

[

Originally Posted by ZOERA-SC7XX

I don't know where this 'Mob Mentality' thing came from.

While I plead guilty to being a sarcastic smartass, it came from Joe's Garage post #114 in this thread.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

BMI versus Hydrostatic Body Fat Testing. Your thoughts?

[rodneym]

I'm not falling for your trickery, Sir Knockers.

That's like HP and TQ.
Looking at the same house through a different window.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by rodneym

I'm not falling for your trickery, Sir Knockers.

That's like HP and TQ.
Looking at the same house through a different window.

Actually, that analogy would hold true, if one of the two windows being looked through were opaque.

[rodneym]

Rodknock,
I don't want to know what goes on behind your opaque glass...

Bernica,
Don't you have Avons and a Toploader?
You poor, twisted soul.

[jhv48]

As an aside, I think that if a prospective buyer happened on this thread before buying this particular replica, he would gain a wealth of knowledge and perspective about the build that would help him reach an educated conclusion.
This discussion and analysis has enlightened me hugely. When I first examined the car, I saw none of the flaws and concerns that have been noted.
I first figured the car to be a mid $40k non-donor car. Now, after it has been thoroughly examined (as much as you can via photos) I peg it for a sub $30k donor build.
If I were considering the purchase of this car, I would be very appreciative of all the help. Just having a side oiler doesn't make it a $50k car. And if the rest of the car is a donor build, what does that say about the engine?

And then there's the matter of the vin number. Can open, worms all over the ground!

Good job, guys!

Now, back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Bernica]

Originally Posted by rodneym

Hey fellas! Looks like the regular band of gypsies is here.
So what's on the agenda for today?

Real vs Replica?
BB vs SB?
Open contributions to the "How much I hate Carroll Shelby" thread.

You forgot a few:

BB's vs Avons
Avons with BB lettering
Toploader vs TKO
"Real" Continuations