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Kirkham Motorsports

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  • 1 Post By 1795
  • 2 Post By Alfa02
  • 2 Post By Morris
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Old 10-23-2018, 06:56 AM
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Default " Bedding " procedure for Hard brake pads

I have the replica Girling brakes with the very hard "racing" pads, and am wondering what might be the procedure to bed the pads. I know for street brakes, a few runs to 30-40 mph then hard braking will do the job, but that does not do the job with these pads. I have talked to a brake pad supplier regarding "street" pads, but they only had some less hard material that "may or may not" work well for street use". At $400 a set, I would want street use a certainty.
Anyone have experience with these brakes ? Tom Kirkham?
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Old 10-23-2018, 07:32 AM
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What brand of brake pads are you using? I know that the ones that came with my Girlings had you slowly work the speeds up from 30 mph to 80 mph, braking at approximately 10-20 mph intervals while bedding the pads and then cool them off prior to using them again. Some race pads do not start working effectively until thy get hot, which could be a problem on the street.

Jim
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Old 10-23-2018, 09:29 AM
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Jim is 100% correct on bedding in race pads. But why do you think you need race pads for the street? They never get hot enough to work correctly on the street, Back when we were kids, it was cool to say we had race pads on our Z's, but what a pain, planning your stops, far ahead just to get them warm enough to stop the car They can and do pull when the temp's aren't even (The older "Wiser" club members would shake their heads and laugh, when our cars would all of sudden pull left or right). By the way, the ez way to bed in brakes, is take a little emory cloth, or light sandpaper and lightly sand the glaze off the new pads, before installing. My crew used to pop the puck's out, and sand them after every session (Race pad's will glaze, after a hard session), while also bleeding the brakes, all in less the 20mins, nothing better then a hard pedal , before each session. Cheers Tom.
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Old 10-23-2018, 10:35 AM
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I purchased my car in the mid-1990's, and it came with Wilwood brakes. The supplied pads were definitely for racing, which I didn't know. In fact, I really knew nothing about pads back then.

Those pads had a very high metallic content and were also very dusty. I didn't drive the car a lot during that first year, and parked the car over the winter with some brake dust still on my Trigo aluminum wheels. When I took the cover off the car about 5 months later, electrolysis from the iron particles laying on the alloy, had pitted the wheels terribly.

Those pads went in the trash.
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Old 10-23-2018, 11:03 AM
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The right way to bed race pads.....is to go out on the track a use them gentile on the first lap then use the pads hard over the next 2 laps to bring them up to almost fade point then cool off the next lap and bring the car in and Jack it up and let sit to completely cool down.....

Using race pads on the street is dangerous....as they don’t work until they get to about 800*degrees and up.....our fronts ran about 1100*degrees and the rears ran about 900*degees......which could never be reached on the street.....that’s why on the pace lap we always scrub the tires and ride the brake pedal to make sure the tires & brakes were up to temp before the green flag dropped....

Now days you can buy rotors & pads all ready bedded in from the mfg....which helped a lot of folks as they did not know how to properly bed brakes.....and in endurance races you have to bed your pads prior to the race.....we carry 3 sets of bedded pads and spare rotors to every Event....
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Old 10-23-2018, 05:42 PM
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Thanks for the info Guys ! I haven't been able to log in all afternoon. Now @ 7:40 pm lcl, I got right in ! I'll post more later.

Ted
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:49 AM
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Jim: don't know the brand, were on the car when new, no markings on pads.
Will try your procedure today. Heading to DSCC "Reptile Roundup " at Melbourne, FL tomorrow.

Alfa:Have tried the pad and rotor "scuff "trick several times before to no avail. This time I used my 4" grinder with a "floppy" 36 grit wheel, and that barley left scratches, and vibrater sander with 60 grit paper on the pads, so we'll see how that works today.
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Old 10-24-2018, 07:03 AM
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Morris: Have tried several times thru the years to track this thing, but it never worked out.
Even if I was able to get it on a track to bed the brakes, how long would it be back on the street before they were glazed again ? If this time the bedding procedure fails, I will be on the hunt for a more civilized pad.

I am honored that you replied to my humble post.
I followed your amazing transformation of KMP259 with great interest.
You are one of my Cobra Heros !!!

Ted
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Old 10-24-2018, 12:10 PM
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Hi Ted,

Love your car. I think mine is going to look very similar when it is done.

At some point I would like to put Girling brakes on my car. The reason I stuck with the Wilwoods for now is that I heard you could not get good pads for the street. Please keep us posted on what you find as the Girling conversion is definitely on my longer term list of things to do.

Thanks - Kevin
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Old 10-24-2018, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD View Post
Morris: Have tried several times thru the years to track this thing, but it never worked out.
Even if I was able to get it on a track to bed the brakes, how long would it be back on the street before they were glazed again ? If this time the bedding procedure fails, I will be on the hunt for a more civilized pad.

Ted
Ted

Once you bed the pads and rotor in on a race track, they will only work on the race track..... they will not work on the street as they have to much metal in them which makes the compound to hard for the Street.

That is why you have to have different sets of pads.... one set for the track and one set for the street which will be a lot softer material and less metal in the pads.

As you can see here we Painted the Rotors with Temperature Paint to know the operating range of the Front Brakes




And here you can see all of the air we pump into the center of the Rotor and to the Caliper to keep them cool.... Front Rotors will run 1100*degrees & Caliper should be under 350*Degrees



That is why you can't use track pads and rotors on the street.... they operate at to high of a Range.

Street pads and rotors will operate at a very low temperature to be effective.

Hope this helps.
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Old 10-24-2018, 04:08 PM
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EBC Brakes Direct has 'High Friction Fastest Street Pads' for Girling AR, BR, CR, M16 and NR calipers. That's one option I'd be looking at, rather than trying to run race pads on the street.

https://ebcbrakesdirect.com/race-caliper-parts/girling
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Old 10-24-2018, 06:14 PM
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Ted,

I use the EBC Reds on the Cobra with good results on both the street and on track days. If you could find a set you might like them.

Be sure to match the front and rear pads, too.

Others like the EBC Green or Yellow for dual-purpose use. Can't comment as I haven't tried them.

See you tomorrow,

Tom
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Old 10-29-2018, 05:02 AM
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My VSE cobra has Sierra brake calipers. Lovely looking racing brakes.

I cannot lock the wheels with them though, and have changed the master cylinder sizes in an effort to make them work better.

I am coming round to the conclusion that they are racing pads. Does anybody know where I can buy new pads for them with street compound or a place to send them to get street compound pad material on them?
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Old 10-29-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
My VSE cobra has Sierra brake calipers. Lovely looking racing brakes.

I cannot lock the wheels with them though, and have changed the master cylinder sizes in an effort to make them work better.

I am coming round to the conclusion that they are racing pads. Does anybody know where I can buy new pads for them with street compound or a place to send them to get street compound pad material on them?
JOES Racing Products has taken over operations of Sierra Racing Products and J.F.Z.

We have a limited number of replacement parts.

For more information please call 425-267-9199 or email robert@joesracing.com


https://www.joesracing.com/p-30740-s...-products.html

Pads: You may want to consider the dtc-05 compound for autocross / street use. Check out this link: brake pads
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Old 10-29-2018, 08:56 PM
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Thanks Brian!

I have to get two of the wheels off now to see which pads I have.
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Old 11-06-2018, 10:57 AM
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Check out Porterfield R4S brake pads. Highly recommended.
Frank
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