Tragic Accident

[cycleguy55]

Originally Posted by Selo

I don't know guys......in the high performance driving schools I've done what they've taught us is to continue accelerating to keep traction on the rear, hence keep it from snap oversteering, and countersteer the front tires in the SAME direction as the slide until you regain control.

Look where you want to go and steer in that direction.

[Selo]

Originally Posted by cycleguy55

Look where you want to go and steer in that direction.

You can look wherever you want but if you lift off the throttle your ass is headed to the ditch.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by Selo

I don't know guys......in the high performance driving schools I've done what they've taught us is to continue accelerating to keep traction on the rear, hence keep it from snap oversteering, and countersteer the front tires in the SAME direction as the slide until you regain control.

I have done hundreds of races over the years, many of them at Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunder Hill, Willow Springs in a
highly competitive 125cc Shifter Kart class.

I need to strongly agree with the quote above, when the rears break loose you need to steer in the same direction and lightly decrease throttle until you have control and hope to GOD you don't get pummled by a tree or a guard rail. If you release bad things will happen, they will bite and snap you the other direction and then you need to hope to GOD you dont flip it... 90" wheel base 500hp careful guys.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

I have done hundreds of races over the years, many of them at Laguna Seca, Sears Point, Thunder Hill, Willow Springs in a
highly competitive 125cc Shifter Kart class.

I need to strongly agree with the quote above, when the rears break loose you need to steer in the same direction and lightly decrease throttle until you have control and hope to GOD you don't get pummled by a tree or a guard rail. If you release bad things will happen, they will bite and snap you the other direction and then you need to hope to GOD you dont flip it... 90" wheel base 500hp careful guys.

I had a 250 international, so I know all about turning the opposite direction if needed.
Everybody should spend some time in a kart, and even a motorcycle to appreciate the dynamics of loss of control.

Gary

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Gaz64

... to appreciate the dynamics of loss of control.

Gary

Ehhh, a lot of us around here are on the verge of loss of control literally on a daily basis.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ehhh, a lot of us around here are on the verge of loss of control literally on a daily basis.

Are we still taking about motor vehicles?

[undy]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Ehhh, a lot of us around here are on the verge of loss of control literally on a daily basis.

Whut-chu mean Vern??

[Alfa02]

Gentleman, if I may add a little to this post, about what to do, and when to do it, in a emergency situation. I have raced since I was 15 1/2, Road racing, Pro-Rallye, and I'm a two-time national Champion in Autocrossing (In Auto-X, SMOOTH is FAST). I'm now 63yo, and learned a couple thing's that got me to this age safely. NEVER, NEVER, do anything quickly, that only adds to your car's 'confusion', loading and unloading the suspension, wheel correction (Yes, always steer into the skid), braking (Never lock up the brakes, You will lose your steering ability). Any time you change something quickly, like your minds, it confuses you, or you make mistakes, well your doing the same thing to your car. Trust me boy's in these incident's you will have the time you need. Don't panic ! If this help's one of my Cobra Brother this post was worth it. If you need any other questions answered about this subject just Pm me, I'm here for you. Cheers Tom.

[t walgamuth]

As an autocrosser I am not tempted to take my Cobra to the limits on the street. Too dangerous....

[RUFdriver]

Some sage advice in some of the previous posts, never do abrupt changes on the track or other high performance driving, driving dynamics 101. I’ve done all of the Porsche racing schools and qualified for SCCA racing license , the worst thing you can do in a 911 is lift in a turn, the old saying “ keep your finger in the flame” applies. Not sure if that is what happened here. There was an unconfirmed report on Texas Cobra Club Facebook page that a mechanic was driving the car and a driveshaft let loose. If that’s indeed what happened then we are dealing with catastrophic mechanical failure .

[Kit Coyle]

I flew in a Navy Fighter Squadron and each and every incident and accident was
dissected in detail at mandatory daily AOMs [all officers meetings]. This was an
excellent tool and "heads up." Knowing more about this and other Cobra
related accidents would be helpful. Previous posts are great for loss of control
mitigation techniques which are useful if you have paved room to apply them.
That is a big IF on the street. Over cook a corner there, get a rear wheel
off the pavement, and you are along for the ride in most cases.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

I flew in a Navy Fighter Squadron and each and every incident and accident was dissected in detail...

Yeah, but you never got sued for sliding your plane in to a cloud while showing off for your buddy and then your insurance carrier withholds coverage because you said something extra-dumb on the internet.

[Morris]

It's easy to comment on all of the things that should have been done.....
My concern is that many folks build these vehicles without proper knowledge of Safety, or Protection with these type of Cars. They thing they can just put a kit of some sort together and then the have a car they can act like a kid again. It does bring back memories of driving a fast car....But it must be Safely accompolished in the build process.... everything on a car has to be thought out why and how it is being used....and is it strong enough to handle the situation it will be put in. Below shows you what a Cobra Frame looks like.



Very weak and hardly nothing to reinforce the or protect the occupants in the vehicle.



This is why many people are hurt in any mishap with a Cobra.
Their is just no protection for the occupants.

[120mm]

Originally Posted by Morris

It's easy to comment on all of the things that should have been done.....
My concern is that many folks build these vehicles without proper knowledge of Safety, or Protection with these type of Cars. They thing they can just put a kit of some sort together and then the have a car they can act like a kid again. It does bring back memories of driving a fast car....But it must be Safely accompolished in the build process.... everything on a car has to be thought out why and how it is being used....and is it strong enough to handle the situation it will be put in. Below shows you what a Cobra Frame looks like.

Very weak and hardly nothing to reinforce the or protect the occupants in the vehicle.

This is why many people are hurt in any mishap with a Cobra.
Their is just no protection for the occupants.

And this is precisely why I am attracted to the Shelby Cobra.

I think America's fetish with safety detracts from a very foundational flavor of life.

The Shelby Cobra is an overpowered motorcycle on four wheels.

So what?

It forces you to work to stay alive. Kind of like our ancestors used to do. Which is also probably why so many people are dissatisfied with their pampered, protected lives. That cave man "gene" to survive is simply not being accessed any more.

I know I'm taking my sweet time getting mine, but I will have one, and when I do, I will approach the complexity and difficulty of driving a Cobra to its very limit, safely, with a passion. Knowing perfectly well that it can kill me.

This is why I read everything I can find about Cobras, and especially about the accidents.

[Morris]

I'm not surprised when I see someone has a simple accident and they get major injuries. with Fiberglass or Aluminum covering this type of chassis, you can bet on a injury if a accident happens.

That was why we completely disassembed KMP259 when I got it.... After many years Racing at high speed and seeing some bad accidents, we decided to change and build KMP259 for a Track ...but more importantly make it safe and add protection to the occupants.

Here's some of the ways that we approached re-enforcing the Chassis, we started with the door bars...and worked them into the floor of the chassis.



Now look at the floor and the re-enforcement we put into the structure under the seats.



The bottom of the doors wrap around to the suspension pick-up points ....then we ran tubing down the bottom of the doors to the main hoop under the dash.



Then we re-enforced the main hoop both on the sides as well as the Petty Bar.



Then we ran bigger tubes from the Dash hoop down to the Shock towers and accross the shock towers....in addition we added cross bars to the main chassis

[patrickt]

I'll only add one thing, and I won't harp on it. If you can lean your head back and touch it to your unpadded roll bar then that's probably the greatest danger you face. It was just a few years ago that we had a thread on here where the guy was "demonstrating" his Cobra in the country club parking lot and slid it in to the curb. He died from BFT to the head... in the country club parking lot of all places.

[Gaz64]

Yes, and that's why it is a called a head restraint, but used by some as a headrest.

Even my superkart had a head restraint as part of the custom seat.

I won't travel in a car without a head restraint.

Gary

[Morris]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'll only add one thing, and I won't harp on it. If you can lean your head back and touch it to your unpadded roll bar then that's probably the greatest danger you face.:

The rules for SCCA & Trans AM.....require a 36” square pad behind the drivers helmet.....when I Raced.....much like this on KMP259


h


You can see the head rest pad that is 4” thick....

[xlr8tr]

Originally Posted by patrickt

I'll only add one thing, and I won't harp on it. If you can lean your head back and touch it to your unpadded roll bar then that's probably the greatest danger you face. It was just a few years ago that we had a thread on here where the guy was "demonstrating" his Cobra in the country club parking lot and slid it in to the curb. He died from BFT to the head... in the country club parking lot of all places.

I was highly concerned about this issue. I sit so far back in mine, plus being 6'7", that if i tilted my head back it went INSIDE the roll hoop. I've seen the small ones that fit kind of inside the roll hoop, but I was concerned in an accident I'd glance off that and still hit the hoop. So, I made a headrest: I used high density 2" thick flat rollbar foam (the good stuff), attached the assembly to the hoop and its removable in less than a minute if I feel like it (car show whatever). sorry pictures are crappy.

[patrickt]

Hmmm, at 6'7" I think you could lose a couple of inches off the top and still be just fine.