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October 2020
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Kirkham Motorsports

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Old 05-10-2020, 06:16 AM
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Default coolant recovery

I would like to install a coolant recovery container, but I have very limited space in the engine cmpartment. (big block, large fan & shroud, remote oil filter, standard big ford expansion tank, etc,).
Only good place I can find is on top of drivers footbox, next to the wiper motor.
Anyone have this type system on ther car ?
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Old 05-10-2020, 08:03 AM
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Ted,

If you've decided not to use the "classic" and sometimes leaky approach of the FE overflow tank on top of the front of the engine, and if you have the space, here's how mine is located:
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Old 05-10-2020, 08:07 AM
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cont'd...

The fender vent is on the left of the photo. I'm looking upward so it's just inside the fenderwell. This is on the passenger side of my E-M. Of course I have no idea if the anatomy of your Kirkham is in any way similar.

The overflow can is about 8 or 9 inches tall, and has the small hose entering at the top, going over to the radiator filler neck.

I hope this makes some sense.

Tom
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Old 05-10-2020, 08:12 AM
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cont'd...

The tank itself is kinda sorta like this one: https://www.amazon.com/Moroso-63657-...123449&sr=8-69

Except I think it is aluminum, maybe more like this: https://www.amazon.com/Assault-Racin...23799&sr=8-202

Hope this helps,

Tom
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Wells's law of engine size: If it matters what gear you're in, the engine's too small!

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Old 05-10-2020, 08:43 AM
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Way too complicated. Here's mine:

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Old 05-10-2020, 09:51 AM
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Patrick,

Well, was it salt or was it pepper, and is it .032" or .040" safety wire?

Tom
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:18 AM
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Tom: I do have the FE expansion tank, with a 13# cap, which after some stop & go traffic will open and purge coolant, so at the end of a long cruise I've lost a bunch of coolant. Dave K. told me the original radiators they used would not take a lot of pressure, don't go over 13#.
So I figure if I have a closed system, it will get sucked back in, so no lost coolant.
From your pics it looks like your tank is in the header area . I have room there, but figured that was way too hot, plus I thought if I keep the tank higher, it would be easier
for it to flow back in as the engine cooled.
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:22 AM
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Patrick: That's WAY out of character for you!, but I'll try that just to see how much coolant the Jar or other container contains after a good run,
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:29 AM
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Once the surge tank finds its sweet spot, it will only spit out maybe a half ounce or so on a particularly hot day. Other than that, it never does anything. But that half ounce is just enough to make Ellie sick.
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Old 05-10-2020, 10:42 AM
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The FE header tank has a baffle running horizontally with a large hole directly below the filler neck. My car's "sweet spot" seems to be just under that hole, which is close to the bottom of the tank. Is that hole the "cold full" level ? No matter how much water I put in, after a run the level is always just bellow the hole. The rest is back on the road somewhere. This is not acceptable if you track or autocross.
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MOTORHEAD View Post
The FE header tank has a baffle running horizontally with a large hole directly below the filler neck. My car's "sweet spot" seems to be just under that hole, which is close to the bottom of the tank. Is that hole the "cold full" level ? No matter how much water I put in, after a run the level is always just bellow the hole. The rest is back on the road somewhere. This is not acceptable if you track or autocross.
That's perfect. Some FE's sweet spot is lower, some higher, but so long as you let it find itself, and there's at least some coolant in there when the engine is cold, then you're fine. I've never seen one that was bone dry when cold, but that wouldn't surprise me either. If you have coolant in the system, and the engine is reaching a normal operating temperature, and not overheating, then the level in the surge tank does not matter. But on every FE ever made, if you fill the surge tank up to the top it will spit it right out when it warms up.
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Old 05-10-2020, 11:28 AM
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Just went out & measured the heigth of the baffle above the tank bottom....1/2", that's all the water that's in there !
I used to have an overflo catch bottle in front of the "X" member, but after I installed the Taurus fan there wasn't enough room.
I think I've figured out where to put the container I have, so I'll mock it up and give it a test run tomorrow.
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Old 05-10-2020, 12:17 PM
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My recovery tank is in the wheel well, just behind the driver's side headlamp. PITA to fill or top up but, as others have noticed, once you've run the car a couple of times the system finds its level and all you need to do is peer in there occasionally to ensure you're not losing coolant. I use a small flashlight (Brits would call that a 'torch').
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Old 05-10-2020, 01:11 PM
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Guys,

I think you're all correct. And further, no extra catch can is needed. As said above, if there's any water in the tank at all, that's OK.

The point of the whole system is to have NO air sucked back into the radiator or engine when the engine is cold. When it is warm, there will be water pushed into the reservoir from the radiator, then sucked back in as the engine cools.

"Working as designed."

Any extra water put into the reservoir is always going to be pushed out, so once the engine is "burped" (no more air pockets in the engine or radiator after a few heat cycles) no more water should be added.

Try hard not to overthink this...

Tom
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Old 05-10-2020, 01:40 PM
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... and my bottle is not a salt, nor pepper, shaker. I believe it started out life as a bottle of rainbow sprinkles for ice cream sundaes. It's thick, heavy glass, and perfectly sized... and it's really easy to tell if there's any coolant in it (because it's glass).
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Old 05-15-2020, 08:29 AM
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I've temporarily re-installed my coolant recovery container (I found a spot) as a catch can.
Added 2 qts water to Expansion tank, measures 2 1/8" from bottom of tank.
Went for long drive. After letting it cool down, measured water level @ 1 3/4 ", maybe an ounce or two in catch can. Missing water maybe was in the form of steam escaping ?
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Old 05-15-2020, 01:05 PM
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I may have found the answer to the "disapearing coolant " mystery:
Being retired, most of my memory cells have also retired, but one must still be active, as I remembered that I own a Coolant Pressure Test kit ! I never had considered a leak, as non were ever visible, but pressurizing to 13# showed leakage at every hose end clamp.
Tightening ensued and leakage stopped.
( "Under Pressure" by David Bowie playing in the background ) My new theme song.
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Old 05-19-2020, 05:24 PM
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Interesting.... I just experienced the exact same issue. Found a small leak one day under the car. So we pumped the system up cold to 13-16 lbs and every hose had a leak of some magnitude. Tighten every clamp up and now dry. Did some research and I think the hoses loose a bit of their initial thickness and definitely their rigidity over time and multiple heat cycles.
The system will self level and the catch can will see some liquid after and antifreeze flush. Some coolant tanks will send fluid back to engine if they have a hose inside the overflow tank that extends to the bottom of the tank.
Blas
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:37 PM
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Partrick you might be better off using something metal or plastic. At least something unbreakable. Broken glass and soft tires could be a problem.

Also regarding the pressure test on the cooling system...When it's cold I believe you will find leaks that don't exist when things heat up. Everything will expand and tighten as the coolant gets hot.

I was siphoning some antifreeze from a bottle and was surprised how sweet it tasted when some got in my mouth. Yes I know it's poison but I also know why dogs might like to lap it up off the garage floor. It maybe under the car until you pull the car out for a drive and then the puddle is in the open. Be careful.

John
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Old 05-20-2020, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
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Partrick you might be better off using something metal or plastic. At least something unbreakable. Broken glass and soft tires could be a problem.
If that bottle gets broken, then I've managed to get myself in way more trouble than a popped tire would ever be.
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