Kirkham vs Shelby

[nkb]

(Change in thread title)

As a new prospective cobra replica buyer I have been researching the various options out there. I am looking at 289 slabside. I basically winnowed it down to ERA (Fiberglass) and Kirkham (Aluminum), though still haven't completely ruled out others. I readily got pricing for the ERA but had some difficulty getting current Kirkham pricing.

Based upon perusing this forum I had guessed perhaps that a Kirkham roller could be $100K+ as it seemed that is what various others had experienced. However, the quote I finally received was more in the range of the Shelby aluminum version. $200K for a roller with 50% down. But without the CSX continuation VIN of the Shelby, I think. $20K discount if not assembled. No special options or finish were included. Option, $25K for polish or brushed.

Seems that Kirkham has perhaps made a major pricing change recently (unless all of my information was very stale). It also makes the used Kirkhams out there more attractive (less expensive).

[twobjshelbys]

For equal pricing take the Shelby CSX version. Long term they hold their price or appreciate more than the Kirkham. Yes, it's all in the name.

Kirkham is overwhelmed with orders, booked way out, so pricing is to slow down demand so supply can catch up.

But a Shelby will come from Kirkham, so it will take a while too. The Shelby CSXs show up used every once in a while. Call Hillbank and get on a wait list. Also monitor cobra country. DenBeste might also be a place to check.

[patrickt]

A new turnkey CSX/KMS/ERA is going to be six figures, with an aluminum car being significantly higher than a glass car. Last I heard, ERA was backed up about a year; I don't know about CSX/KMS timelines. If you really want a car relatively soon, or you'd like to save a nickel, go for a used car (which might still take some time). If you absolutely have to have a car made just the way you want it, then it will cost you in both time and money.

[FredG]

With the way everything is going nowadays, I would imagine it's going to take a long time time to get anything that has to either shipped or manufactured. As Patrick said, the used route would be the best option if you want something and don't want to wait. It, also, seems that the resale market for all the popular replicas is causing shortages in that market too. Good luck.


Fred

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

A new turnkey CSX/KMS/ERA is going to be six figures, with an aluminum car being significantly higher than a glass car. Last I heard, ERA was backed up about a year; I don't know about CSX/KMS timelines. If you really want a car relatively soon, or you'd like to save a nickel, go for a used car (which might still take some time). If you absolutely have to have a car made just the way you want it, then it will cost you in both time and money.

According to the Shelby web site, starting price for a CSX8000 ROLLER (street 289) - no power train - is 180,995 and goes up from there with options... Fibreglass is 95,995.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

According to the Shelby web site, starting price for a CSX8000 ROLLER (street 289) - no power train - is 180,995 and goes up from there with options... Fiberglass is 95,995.

Dang, I used to think a hundred grand was ridiculous. NKB -- when you add in your engine, trans, start upgrading your brakes, and just get stuff that you really like, you're up at a four year Ivy league med school tuition.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Kirkham is overwhelmed with orders, booked way out, so pricing is to slow down demand so supply can catch up.

For the $200K price, delivery was quoted at 3 months.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by nkb

For the $200K price, delivery was quoted at 3 months.

In the Cobra replica biz, people don't always tell the unvarnished truth.

[LMH]

Look at the Superformance leaf spring car if you want accuracy at a lower price. It's fiberglass but has the right chassis and suspension.
Larry

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by nkb

As a new prospective cobra replica buyer I have been researching the various options out there. I am looking at 289 slabside. I basically winnowed it down to ERA (Fiberglass) and Kirkham (Aluminum), though still haven't completely ruled out others. I readily got pricing for the ERA but had some difficulty getting current Kirkham pricing.

Based upon perusing this forum I had guessed perhaps that a Kirkham roller could be $100K+ as it seemed that is what various others had experienced. However, the quote I finally received was more in the range of the Shelby aluminum version. $200K for a roller with 50% down. But without the CSX continuation VIN of the Shelby, I think. $20K discount if not assembled. No special options or finish were included. Option, $25K for polish or brushed.

Seems that Kirkham has perhaps made a major pricing change recently (unless all of my information was very stale). It also makes the used Kirkhams out there more attractive (less expensive).

The Kirkham website used to have a pricing calculator for options. If you pushed all the option buttons the price probably quickly approached $200K, but that included the polished or brushed finish. One of the expensive options was the original style suspension with girling style brakes. Did you ask for that? Or were you getting the billet style suspension for that $200K price? Perhaps their prices have really gone up in the last couple of years.

I doubt Kirkham made many slabsides, so it may be quite a while before you see a used one come up for sale.

Although at the current pricing you might like a CSX over a Kirkham, regardless of what you get, you want to get someone qualified to do the engine/transmission install and alignment. On Facebook for the last couple of weeks David Kirkham has been posting about a small block CSX continuation car that was completely messed up by "ORCs" as he calls them. There was bailing wire and a plastic zip tie on a broken leaf spring, grinder marks on all kinds of things, metal filings in the differential, extra holes drilled in the engine mounts, messed up transmission mount due to using the wrong bellhousing and dozens of more problems. David and team are doing a lot of work to get this CSX rebuilt correctly. I would hate to see the bill after Kirkham gets done getting this car right. I wonder who the owner used to originally install the engine and align the car. I hope it was an amatuer mechanic and not a Shelby dealer.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by LMH

Look at the Superformance leaf spring car if you want accuracy at a lower price. It's fiberglass but has the right chassis and suspension.
Larry

This ^^^
ERA makes a stellar product and their 427 car is superior to the equivalent Superformance offering, but since you're open to a fibreglass body on your slab side, the SPF version is a true work of art. Far more accurate than ERA's slab.

[1985 CCX]

My $0.02 CORRECTED............

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$200k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$200K buggy Spring ($less hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $100k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

[KarlzEE Bebout]

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by KarlzEE Bebout

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

It's time we adopt a new rule that says that if you manage to spend $250k on your car then it is deemed to be real.

[Grubby]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

My $0.02

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$175k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$150K buggy Spring ($125k hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $70k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

I think your ERA price is too low. I am in process now and I would be thrilled to get done for $70k. Closer to six figures if you do the assembly.

John

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Grubby

I think your ERA price is too low. I am in process now and I would be thrilled to get done for $70k. Closer to six figures if you do the assembly.

OK, then under the new rule the car is not real.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

My $0.02

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$175k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$150K buggy Spring ($125k hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $70k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

It would appear that your prices are too low for the CSX alloy and KMS. CSX alloy roller starts at $181K. The KMS roller(billet suspension) is $200K. KMS finish (polish/brushed) - plus $25K, leaf spring suspension(recommended) - plus $10K. KMS appears to easily exceed $250K with engine and trans.

[1985 CCX]

Originally Posted by KarlzEE Bebout

"Original style this...Original style that..."

Still a replica.

Get what you want/can afford. It's YOUR car.

Cannot disagree but that was not the question for starters.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

Cannot disagree but that was not the question for starters.

And once you go past a certain point, it's arguable that you don't even get what you're paying for.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

This ^^^
ERA makes a stellar product and their 427 car is superior to the equivalent Superformance offering, but since you're open to a fibreglass body on your slab side, the SPF version is a true work of art. Far more accurate than ERA's slab.

Is the SPF slabside generally understood to have a more accurate body than the ERA? That could definitely influence my decision between the two (or the CSX fiberglass )