Kirkham vs Shelby

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by LMH

Look at the Superformance leaf spring car if you want accuracy at a lower price. It's fiberglass but has the right chassis and suspension.
Larry

This ^^^
ERA makes a stellar product and their 427 car is superior to the equivalent Superformance offering, but since you're open to a fibreglass body on your slab side, the SPF version is a true work of art. Far more accurate than ERA's slab.

[1985 CCX]

My $0.02 CORRECTED............

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$200k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$200K buggy Spring ($less hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $100k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

[Grubby]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

My $0.02

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$175k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$150K buggy Spring ($125k hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $70k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

I think your ERA price is too low. I am in process now and I would be thrilled to get done for $70k. Closer to six figures if you do the assembly.

John

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by Grubby

I think your ERA price is too low. I am in process now and I would be thrilled to get done for $70k. Closer to six figures if you do the assembly.

OK, then under the new rule the car is not real.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

My $0.02

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$175k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$150K buggy Spring ($125k hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $70k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

It would appear that your prices are too low for the CSX alloy and KMS. CSX alloy roller starts at $181K. The KMS roller(billet suspension) is $200K. KMS finish (polish/brushed) - plus $25K, leaf spring suspension(recommended) - plus $10K. KMS appears to easily exceed $250K with engine and trans.

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

My $0.02 CORRECTED............

KMS/CSX are the same car in alloy and will be well north of $100k to start particularly if you are going buggy spring.

Remember std KMS is like an ERA 289 car, a hybrid using a 427 chassis.
KMS upcharges for buggy spring chassis Big$$.

SPF is a great option as its both CSX glass and SPF using buggy spring chassis.
I love ERA cars but I would pay the extra few bucks for SPF as its buggy spring and not a Hybrid chassis. More correct. Glass CSX cars are SPF cars.....

Top down:
CSX alloy expect finished price >$200k
KMS alloy expect completed at >$200K buggy Spring ($less hybrid chassis)
CSX glass ~ $140k buggy spring
SPF glass ~ $110k buggy spring
ERA glass ~ $100k glass / hybrid chassis

Of course I menatlly added things for correctness which could change $ but this should be about right in the end for decision making purposes.
The base car is mearley the start as motor, trans, wheels, tires adds $$.

your comment about glass CSX cars being SPF cars? you are correct in saying that both cars are made by hi-tech in the same factory but completely different cars.

[1985 CCX]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

your comment about glass CSX cars being SPF cars? you are correct in saying that both cars are made by hi-tech in the same factory but completely different cars.

We are talikng about the current 289 cars here, not 427 cars to which your statement holds true.
Yes "HiTech" but virtually the same in 289 lanes.....
The reason I stated SPF as most understand its HT some will see HiTech as possibly from AZ vs the one from S. Africa. Confusing....

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by ERA 626

your comment about glass CSX cars being SPF cars? you are correct in saying that both cars are made by hi-tech in the same factory but completely different cars.

This is absolutely incorrect in relation to the slabside Cobras. The HT/SPF 427 car is completely different from the 427 that they build for Shelby, but their slabside is the exact same car, minus badging, branding, that all-important (to some) CSX number and I think - as mentioned by Larry - the optional differential.

Originally Posted by ERA 626

The customer service from ERA will be light years better that SPF...

Well the OP never asked about customer service, so I'd best leave that debate to others except to add that given ERA's well-established focus and pride in their limited production and extremely long wait times; it wouldn't surprise me one bit if SPF wasn't better able (and/or inclined**) to be faster and more responsive to new or potential customers and their pesky inquiries.

**kinda based on personal experience

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Buzz

This is absolutely incorrect in relation to the slabside Cobras. The HT/SPF 427 car is completely different from the 427 that they build for Shelby, but their slabside is the exact same car, minus badging, branding, that all-important (to some) CSX number and I think - as mentioned by Larry - the optional differential.



Well the OP never asked about customer service, so I'd best leave that debate to others except to add that given ERA's well-established focus and pride in their limited production and extremely long wait times; it wouldn't surprise me one bit if SPF wasn't better able (and/or inclined**) to be faster and more responsive to new or potential customers and their pesky inquiries.

**kinda based on personal experience

It seems to me that if you want to get an SPF and want good customer service that you should be getting the car from forum user "Mark IV".

https://www.timemachineauto.com/

From reading the posts by forum user "1795", it seems that time machines auto is extremely helpful.

[1795]

I would highly recommend Rick (Mark IV) to anyone considering buying an SPF. He goes above and beyond, will go out of his way to help people who he has not sold a car to, and will not feed you a line of garbage to get a sale. If there are delays or problems he will let you know up front, before you put your money down.

A truly class act.

Jim

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

This ^^^
ERA makes a stellar product and their 427 car is superior to the equivalent Superformance offering, but since you're open to a fibreglass body on your slab side, the SPF version is a true work of art. Far more accurate than ERA's slab.

Is the SPF slabside generally understood to have a more accurate body than the ERA? That could definitely influence my decision between the two (or the CSX fiberglass )

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by nkb

Is the SPF slabside generally understood to have a more accurate body than the ERA? That could definitely influence my decision between the two (or the CSX fiberglass )

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

[nkb]

Originally Posted by Buzz

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

And as a follow-on question, is there a difference between the SPF and CSX slab sides (body, frame, suspension) since I understand SPF (Hi Tech) supplies Shelby? I had initially thought the only difference was in branding and a CSX VIN number. But, perhaps there are more physical differences for the two slab sides even though ostensibly from the same manufacturer ?

[1795]

When I received the first photos from the factory for my SPF FIA next to the frame and transverse leaf spring suspension was a CSX placard. There may be some minor details, but nothing substantial. I have had owners of original 289 cars comment on how close mine is to theirs, with the exception of the fiberglass. The most major difference is that my car does not have a CSX number.

It all depends on what you are looking for, it's your money and your decision.

[LMH]

Originally Posted by nkb

And as a follow-on question, is there a difference between the SPF and CSX slab sides (body, frame, suspension) since I understand SPF (Hi Tech) supplies Shelby? I had initially thought the only difference was in branding and a CSX VIN number. But, perhaps there are more physical differences for the two slab sides even though ostensibly from the same manufacturer ?

For the fiberglass CSX car vs the SPF fiberglass car, there isn't much of a difference except possibly the differential. I don't know if the CSX car comes standard with a 4HU differential or not but it's optional on the SPF. Badging and brake caliper lettering are different I think but bodies come from the same mold. Chassis come from the same jig.
Larry

[Mark IV]

Originally Posted by LMH

For the fiberglass CSX car vs the SPF fiberglass car, there isn't much of a difference except possibly the differential. I don't know if the CSX car comes standard with a 4HU differential or not but it's optional on the SPF. Badging and brake caliper lettering are different I think but bodies come from the same mold. Chassis come from the same jig.
Larry

Basically correct. There are some differences, the Shelby has "SHELBY" branded calipers while the SPF has "Wilwood" branded. The SPF has the ZF differential standard with CV joint axles with the Salisbury optional in either the alloy 4HU type or a reman Jaguar type with mounting adaptors (hint: The iron Jag doesn't have the fluid leakage/pump out issue the alloy unit does). The Salisbury option uses Dana "plunge" axles as per the day. The bodies and chassis' come off the same tooling that is owned by the same person. There are slight differences in some of the options as on the SPF side we offer things like EPAS electric power steering and we know that if you order a red or tan interior the dash should be black as NO Cobras came with red or tan dashes. We currently have car going to build that will be a very well done duplicate of an early 289 with Smiths gauges and some other minor but noticeable differences.

We were involved in the prototyping of the SPF leaf spring car which was then co-opted by Shelby for the Anniversary FIA and street roadster models ("Slabside"...hate that term, nothing "flat" about them).

Here is Jim's (1795) SPF FIA at the Pittsburgh Vintage: https://www.matthewlittlephotography...2021/i-SQ3PxGr

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Mark IV

Basically correct. There are some differences, the Shelby has "SHELBY" branded calipers while the SPF has "Wilwood" branded. The SPF has the ZF differential standard with CV joint axles with the Salisbury optional in either the alloy 4HU type or a reman Jaguar type with mounting adaptors (hint: The iron Jag doesn't have the fluid leakage/pump out issue the alloy unit does). The Salisbury option uses Dana "plunge" axles as per the day. The bodies and chassis' come off the same tooling that is owned by the same person. There are slight differences in some of the options as on the SPF side we offer things like EPAS electric power steering and we know that if you order a red or tan interior the dash should be black as NO Cobras came with red or tan dashes. We currently have car going to build that will be a very well done duplicate of an early 289 with Smiths gauges and some other minor but noticeable differences.

We were involved in the prototyping of the SPF leaf spring car which was then co-opted by Shelby for the Anniversary FIA and street roadster models ("Slabside"...hate that term, nothing "flat" about them).

Here is Jim's (1795) SPF FIA at the Pittsburgh Vintage: https://www.matthewlittlephotography...2021/i-SQ3PxGr

Rick,

From what I recall, it seems that SPF likes to install the optional Kirkham alloy differential incorrectly, which causes the pump out and SPF has no intention of changing how they do the installation.

I think it was discussed in this lengthy thread, which I don't feel like re-reading at this point.

KMS Differential Questions

You seem to have some influence at SPF, maybe if you referred them to the correct way to install the Kirkham differentials, they might pay attention to you?

[ERA 626]

Originally Posted by Buzz

The devil is in the chassis details. ERA builds both (big and small block) models on a rectangular tube chassis with a coilover suspension. For the slab, SPF uses an authentic round tube chassis with the correct transverse leaf suspension. The body shape is beautifully executed and if superficial appearance is a primary driving factor, it certainly holds its own against the ERA. I suppose it would boil down to whether you feel the authenticity factor is worth the relatively reasonable bump in the sticker price.

The customer service from ERA will be light years better that SPF...