Those of you with higher HP FE engines - what oil do you run?

[767Jockey]

Are the higher Zinc/ZDDP levels important in hydro or solid roller lifter engines or are they only important to flat tappet engines?

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Are the higher Zinc/ZDDP levels important in hydro or solid roller lifter engines or are they only important to flat tappet engines?

They tend to be a positive for all engines, Dave. The engines with the most to gain are the freshly built flat tappet engines. Even after a successful break-in the higher Zinc/ZDDP levels provide an extra margin of protection for the flat tappets.

The roller tappets either hydraulic or solid do not have the same susceptibility to break-in or operation failures that flat tappets have in low zinc/zddp environments. That said the higher zinc/ZDDP level lubricants do not do any harm to the roller style lifters.

The higher viscosities in the 40 / 50 /60 weight lubricants provide additional protection in high temperature, high load environments that the lower viscosity oils can not duplicate. A lower HP (say below 400) engine driven as a daily driver would load the bearing surfaces less than a large displacement 550 or 600HP engine capable of generating 600 or so ft/lbs of torque at 4000 to 5000 rpm.

That kind of torque can be impressively destructive in a hot engine at lower speeds with a low viscosity oil that is also skinny in the zinc/ZDDP categories. No need to take on additional risks if it is not necessary.


Ed

[767Jockey]

All great info guys, thank you!

Now for the other question - Now that I'm going to change the oil in this car for the first time, what do you guys do to get all the old oil out of the cooler and cooler/remote filter lines? I'd like to get every bit of the ynthetic that was mistakenly put in there out before I refill with the proper oil.

I was able to reach Blair Patrick, the builder who built the engine, and he's suggesting VR1 straight weight 30 or 40 for the first 3000 miles or so, then switch over to a good quality synthetic. He says the synthetic might inhibit proper ring sealing. Since a couple of you guys suggested VR1, and Blair does as well, I am going to go with that.

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

I was able to reach Blair Patrick, the builder who built the engine, and he's suggesting VR1 straight weight 30 or 40 for the first 3000 miles or so, then switch over to a good quality synthetic. He says the synthetic might inhibit proper ring sealing. Since a couple of you guys suggested VR1, and Blair does as well, I am going to go with that.

See I told you straight 30.

That regimen is what Roush recommended on mine too.

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

See I told you straight 30.

That regimen is what Roush recommended on mine too.

You win!
What method do you use to get all the old oil out of the cooler and lines when you change your oil?

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

You win!
What method do you use to get all the old oil out of the cooler and lines when you change your oil?

I didn't... I suppose you could disconnect the fittings on the cooler.

[Dwight]

this may be of interest

oil

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

All great info guys, thank you!

Now for the other question - Now that I'm going to change the oil in this car for the first time, what do you guys do to get all the old oil out of the cooler and cooler/remote filter lines? I'd like to get every bit of the ynthetic that was mistakenly put in there out before I refill with the proper oil.

I was able to reach Blair Patrick, the builder who built the engine, and he's suggesting VR1 straight weight 30 or 40 for the first 3000 miles or so, then switch over to a good quality synthetic. He says the synthetic might inhibit proper ring sealing. Since a couple of you guys suggested VR1, and Blair does as well, I am going to go with that.

Blair's advice is spot on (IMO). The non synthetics will help the rings seat more quickly. The synthetics are more slippery and while the compression rings may seat well the oil rails will have a bit of a struggle. Eventually they will all seat but why go through the pain when it is not necessary. The old Dino based oils and the newer commercially available break-in oils in particular will do a very nice job for you during break-in.

The other thing not to use is any type of friction modifier. Same problem — oil ring seating and potentially a longer seating effort for the compression rings also. Once everything is seated, most any friction modifier you want to use will not only be good but also protect the engine during cold starts while the oil galleys need to get repressurized. Those few moments before the various bearing surfaces see pressurized lubrication is when the majority of engine component wear occurs.


Ed

[767Jockey]

Originally Posted by eschaider

Blair's advice is spot on (IMO). The non synthetics will help the rings seat more quickly. The synthetics are more slippery and while the compression rings may seat well the oil rails will have a bit of a struggle. Eventually they will all seat but why go through the pain when it is not necessary. The old Dino based oils and the newer commercially available break-in oils in particular will do a very nice job for you during break-in.

The other thing not to use is any type of friction modifier. Same problem — oil ring seating and potentially a longer seating effort for the compression rings also. Once everything is seated, most any friction modifier you want to use will not only be good but also protect the engine during cold starts while the oil galleys need to get repressurized. Those few moments before the various bearing surfaces see pressurized lubrication is when the majority of engine component wear occurs.


Ed

Thanks, Ed. I appreciate all the info you've sent along the way on both this and the quick disconnect hub as well. What method do you use to get all the old oil out of the cooler and lines when you change your oil?

Doug

[eschaider]

Originally Posted by 767Jockey

Thanks, Ed. I appreciate all the info you've sent along the way on both this and the quick disconnect hub as well. What method do you use to get all the old oil out of the cooler and lines when you change your oil?

Doug

The lines are easier than the cooler, Doug. For lines it is just a disconnect and drain routine without any special washing. So far (knock on wood) I haven't had an engine bearing failure so I haven't had any particulate matter to clean out.

I have thought about the problem however. My current thinking is I would probably just buy another SetRab cooler if that happened. Brand new they are about $130 +/- so the price is less than the aggravation to clean.

The other real issue is even when the fluid coming out looks clean there could still be particulate matter lodged in the cooler somewhere that would naturally (for me) loosen up when I am farthest from home and summarily kill an otherwise pristine engine. That's usually my kind of luck so I go towards the conservative solutions. Other guys can play egg toss with a live grenade all day long and nothing happens.

The lines are a little easier. If I suspect particulate matter a good washout in the small parts washer I think would clean everything up with modest effort.

Just for changing from synthetic to Dino grade break-in oil, in an 8 or 10 quart system, after draining the lines I suspect the small amount of residual synthetic oil on the hose liner wall may well not be a significant issue in the break-in / ring seating process.

The compression rings like the repeated loading and unloading that a stop and go sort of operation provides for a good seating. It is worthwhile remembering that a brand new off the show room floor car gets a very good ring seating just from an uninformed owner driving it around town in a very proletariate fashion — without any coaching from the dealer other than maybe no faster than XX mph for the first XX miles.

A good Dino oil, a flushed out oil cooler and lines, and some proletariate around town occasional highway driving like you might do for a new car out of a dealership will probably do an excellent job of seating the rings. Worthwhile commenting on is the fact you may use a little more than a quart per thousand miles for the first month or so even after a successful compression ring(s) break-in and then later when the oil rings finally come in, the oil consumption dries right up.

The hard chrome (I think) facing on the oil rails make them more difficult but far from impossible to seat in a reasonably short period of time.


Ed

[767Jockey]

There's been no issue with the engine, no debris or anything like that. I would just like to get as much synthetic out as I can before the refill with the VR1. I was thinking I'd disconnect the oil cooler lines at the engine, place one end in a large container, and blow some low pressure air into the other line end, hopefully forcing out as much of the synthetic oil sitting in the cooler and lines as I can. Has anyone done that, does that sound reasonable, and has anyone got any better ideas?