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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-26-2022, 05:14 AM
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Default fitech efi

Is the fitech a good efi. What would be the drawback vs sniper and other systems. Price is quite a bit lower so there is my question. thxs for opinions. Gary
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Old 06-26-2022, 06:22 AM
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I had installed the 600HP system the 1st year they came out. Several issues with locking pins on cannon plug connectors failed (pushed back pins, hunting IAC adjustments (would not stay put), random dying like the system had a OFF command and no codes (always started right back up), a couple of shipments back to FiTech for repairs. The random dying continued so even though I had everything wired with aircraft quality environmental splices and connectors. I went back and soldered every connection (thinking dying with no code = loss of connection) and had one more engine shutdown at low speed in a traffic circle.
That was enough for me, and I went back to carb.

I know that Jay's shop at Vintage Motorsport had started using the FiTech and quickly moved over to the Sniper systems and still use them.
(Sorry Jay for speaking for you, but I do watch your delivery and dyno sessions on youtube, lol)

Last edited by spdbrake; 06-26-2022 at 06:25 AM..
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:16 AM
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I ran one for a hand full of years and would say I’m 50/50 on it. First, they are a hard parts company, not a tuning company. It took a while to get the tune really good. Don’t believe the “tune themselves” if you have a fairly radical engine. Once your in the ballpark though, that works well. I don’t believe the Sniper is substantially better (or worse). They source their parts from Oem just like fitech. They are a bigger company with more units out there and thus more support from them and independent forums.
Installation is everything. I had no problems with electrical stuff. I would still be running it except for a injector failure the day before a big trip. Pulled it off, threw my old carb back on, and went. Guess I’m too lazy to go back.
A few suggestions if you decide to go with either system.
Do a good job on the electrical. Shield wires if there is anything that could cause interference.
Don’t mess around with in-line fuel pumps or surge tanks. Put a good in-tank pump in. It’ll be a cleaner and better installation.
O2 sensor failures are possible with either system. Once you get the tune where you want it, turning the self tune off will keep it from going crazy rich or lean if o2 failure happens or you develope an exhaust leak.

Good luck if you go this direction. I actually enjoyed the learning to tune part and may get mine back out now that I’ve talked about it so much.
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Last edited by G_Edmonds; 06-26-2022 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 06-26-2022, 07:22 AM
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Thanks. I was leaning toward efi. Now considering an 8 stack , maybe. I am also leaning toward staying with carb.
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Old 06-26-2022, 09:21 AM
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I put Sniper Stealth on my engine and could not be happier and I also have it control my ignition timing. I have a high overlap cam (107* lobe separation) and it runs perfect, no hesitation or flat spots, even cold start and run is perfect. It looks like a old school Holley and the wiring is hidden under the intake runners.
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Old 06-26-2022, 10:48 AM
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Gary, check with Juan and Bruce B. They both have F.I. The stack injection looks super and I would have used that instead of my Webers, if I had originally built the engine. Not going to change now. The Webers have been just fine, once they were dialed in but I definitely do notice a decrease in power at high elevations, but when you don't start with much, even a small decrease is noticeable. My 2
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:12 AM
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Altitude is where i see loss of power. We have reinstate our travels and altitude is in the cards.
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Old 06-26-2022, 11:44 AM
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Gary,

I can't speak to the FiTech product other than to say during my preliminary investigations they lived up to a parts company sort of customer service/support experience rather than a supplier of a tuneable EFI system. The presale exploratory experience was bad enough that I didn't want to roll the dice with them on what the transition to an after-sale customer service experience might be like.

I looked at a variety of systems from the very nice, very pricey but very capable Motec and Haltech systems down to some less nice, less pricey alternatives. The last system I looked at was from DIY AutoTune which retails the factory-built MegaSquirt systems.

From a tuneability standpoint, these systems are a poor man's Motec or Haltech. From a support perspective, they are extraordinarily well supported by both the online Mega Squirt forums and more significantly some excellent YouTube videos that show you in 15 minutes (sometimes less) how to implement various features in your specific application.

From a feature perspective, they support everything that the higher-priced systems do and there is typically several YouTube how-to videos available for the particular feature.

Several of the really nice features include the fact they use the original Ford sensors so you are not buying EFI vendor sensors that are actually repackaged OEM sensors with outrageous markups. Although they use the OEM Ford sensors they also allow you to use any sensor you want and provide you the ability to use other sensors by modifying the sensor calibration data (not hard to do).

Beyond the sensor niceties, one of the real biggies for me was what they call their Plug-n-Play versions. These systems come with an OEM connector that allows you to use an OEM Wiring harness rather than having to build your own harness from a pricey aftermarket unfinished ball of wires. The installs are blissfully simple as is the first start experiences.

Here is a link to a less than 8 minute how-to video of the install in a 4.6L Mustang GT, click here => Install Process

The system provides you with a choice of either Speed Density, MAF based or Alpha-N tuning models, easy scalability for engines of any displacement, cylinder count and firing order up to 10 cylinders. If you travel to locations with more than a 1000 ft change in altitude, the MAF based fueling model will automatically compensate for the altitude change where the Speed Density fueling model will not. Additionally if you want to run eight stack Weber look alikes, the speed density fueling model will be best for you. Engine displacement and injector size setup is stunningly simple in their excellent incudled Tuner Studio tuning package. The System also comes with a data logging capability and I think I paid either $75 or $80 extra for a wireless Bluetooth connection between my laptop and the MegaSquirt ECU for wireless tuning!

The whole package (with a lifetime warranty) is $1500 click here=> MS3Pro PNP

There are all sorts of built in engine saving features and a boatload of add-on whizzy stuff if you are into that kind of thing, but IMPORTANTLY, the basic package has you completely covered. If you like turbos, flat shift features, multifuel capability, rev limiters, launch controls, anti wheelspin capability, electric throttle controls, variable cam timing and a boat load of other special features, they are all there — for $1500.

The MegaSquirt code is among the oldest of the commercially available EFI fueling logic offerings out there going back into the early 1990's and possibly earlier. It is quite mature and robust.

The $1,500 price point, The ease of install and setup, the rich programming feature set, the myriad of engine protections and this list just keeps going, makes for a very attractive product offering.

Beyond the basic EFI system you will need to purchase a fuel pump, fuel filter, fuel injectors and fuel pressure regulator and suitable high pressure fuel lines. I recommend you use the teflon lined fuel lines because they do not allow any gasoline vapors to accumulate in the garage. Several of the AN fitting suppliers now have non teflon lines they claim do not weep gasoline, so you might want to check them out also.

When it comes to determining what size fuel injectors you need, if you need help I can provide you with an excellent injector sizing tool in Excel format. The spreadsheet is too large to post because of forum file size limitations so PM me if you want it.
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Old 06-27-2022, 06:16 AM
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The learning curve is long. I will be asking alot of questions. So, if i go with an 8 stack setup, speed density works best. Will it adjust to altitude ? I understand MAF will adjust to altitude. I remember megasquirt was all the rage and now its talked about very much. Why? Let the fight begin so to speak!
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by hinoonaz View Post
The learning curve is long. I will be asking alot of questions. So, if i go with an 8 stack setup, speed density works best. Will it adjust to altitude ? I understand MAF will adjust to altitude. I remember megasquirt was all the rage and now its talked about very much. Why? Let the fight begin so to speak!
The only fueling strategy that compensates for altitude change is a Mass Air Flow (MAF) based strategy. No other strategy is capable of doing this.

When you use a MAF fueling strategy every molecule of air entering the engine must pass through the MAF sensor. Making this happen on an eight stack system is both difficult and ugly. If you intend to run an eight stack system the Speed Density system is by far the better approach to use.

The MegaSquirt drum roll is simply a lot of capability for a very reasonable price, and little niceties that others do not offer like a lifetime warranty — bang for your buck.
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Old 06-27-2022, 12:07 PM
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Thxs I do not think an 8 stack is in my future. Any knowledge of MSD Atomic 2. It was just recommended so no info really
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Old 06-27-2022, 01:05 PM
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The MSD products offer a less expensive (usually) way to transition from carbs to EFI. The combination of a throttle body airvalve and injectors can simplify the transition to EFI but will also limit the adaptability to higher power levels down the road. Throttle body, return style, Speed Density systems were where Detroit started in the 80's. As technology, performance and emissions compliance loomed on the horizon the EFI systems improved in both sophistication and scalability, leaving behind their throttle body Alpha-N and Speed Density origins.
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Old 06-27-2022, 07:17 PM
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Looks like MAF is the way to go. There seems to be some new 8 stacks but i think about 3 or 4,000 is not appealing
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Old 06-27-2022, 08:13 PM
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I don't think speed density is totally obsolete, some new vehicles (performance vehicle) have it from the factory.
MAF does work great but is typically found on OEM single air snorkel plenum intake tubes, which will lock you into the diameter of the MAF and surrounding pipe as it affects flow. Change cold air intakes on a Mustang, get a CEL. and go get a new tune. It doesn't lend itself to an 8-stack, or a round air cleaner setup. I bookmarked this last year as it summed up a lot of the issues I ran into doing ever changing mods to my Stang and 3 engines later...

https://www.mishimoto.com/engineerin...speed-density/
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Old 06-27-2022, 11:19 PM
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Speed Density is far from dead. In fact, it is the dominant (in terms of installs) fueling strategy for aftermarket EFI systems. While the MAF-based systems can compensate for the air quality changes as we go higher and lower altitude-wise, the SD systems can have a typically faster response to throttle position changes at a given altitude because they measure air mass differently.

For rapidly changing environments, especially with slower clock speed eight and 16-bit processors, the MAF-based systems used a failed MAF table to use fewer CPU clock cycles to calculate the required injector pulse widthwise. While not entirely fair to give this approach a negative critical review, it can be a few milliseconds slower than a comparable SD system.

That said, if you have to have a vehicle operate properly anywhere from Death Valley to Denver without any intervention from the tuner, nothing today will do that better than a MAF-based system. Both approaches have specific areas where they each stand very tall.

For a n/a engine, the SD system will do an admirable job of properly fueling and protecting the engine from fuel starvation scenarios. For a blown engine where the load can suddenly increase to 100 / 200 / 300 % of a comparable n/a engine load in microseconds, the MAF-based systems have a marginally thicker protective skin but can not save you from stupidity. Both are very, very effective fueling models.

Sometimes the physical layout of the intake system makes one approach more attractive than the other. The one that comes immediately to mind in Cobra Replica country is the EFI system that visually replicates the original Weber carburetors used on the competition cars. The eight individual stacks make it very complicated to force all the engine's airflow through a single MAF — not impossible but very difficult and plumbing-wise, very complex. Weber styled EFI systems are poster children for SD-based EFI systems.
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Old 06-28-2022, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
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That said, if you have to have a vehicle operate properly anywhere from Death Valley to Denver without any intervention from the tuner, nothing today will do that better than a MAF-based system. Both approaches have specific areas where they each stand very tall.
And this is the reason that the modern systems are all MAF. The manufacturers couldn't meet emissions standards if going from Death Valley to Denver you went from running horribly rich to horribly lean. (Actually, Denver isn't a good example - going to the Visitor Center on Trail Ridge Road at 14K feet is better stress, and yes, you do see test vehicles there. I70 at the tunnels is another test vehicle section. In fact, the new Ford GT guys got stopped in that area for "excessive speed" when they were doing the altitude testing.

Speed Density EFI is an electronic carb. And a lot more expensive to "tune" than changing jets when going from Death Valley to Trail Ridge.
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Old 06-28-2022, 08:54 AM
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Gary, just stick with your carb. True that you lose some power at high elevations, but so what? You still have plenty to get up the hill and realistically, how much time are you going to be spending at high elevations? I just bite the bullet with my Webers and wait until I get lower. If I was to stay at a higher elevation more than a few days, I would easily change out my main jets, as you could. My 3 1/2
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Old 06-28-2022, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KarlzEE Bebout View Post
Gary, just stick with your carb. True that you lose some power at high elevations, but so what? You still have plenty to get up the hill and realistically, how much time are you going to be spending at high elevations? I just bite the bullet with my Webers and wait until I get lower. If I was to stay at a higher elevation more than a few days, I would easily change out my main jets, as you could. My 3 1/2

Exactly. My dad would re-jet the old Suburban when we went from Iowa to Colorado on vacation.
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Old 06-28-2022, 04:26 PM
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I think someone should come up with a nicely prepackaged group of jet offerings with say a proletariat jet package offering, then a performance jet package offering, and finally a stroker jet package offering. Shucks if we wanted to get really finicky we could have a Race and a Full Race jet package offerings also, to match our Race and Full Race Camshafts. Of course, if you were really out there at the bleeding edge you would need a set of 5 Cycle jets to work with one of Isky's 5 Cycle cams.

Now I've got to get out my manual and refresh my memory about where the 5 cycle jets get screwed in ...
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Old 06-28-2022, 06:27 PM
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Ya know what Karl, a couple sets of jets is the answer. Jist got back from San ta Fe 7200' and going to Lake Tahoe 6200 and up for a month.
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