Cobras, unsafe at any speed

[RICK LAKE]

Okay First , the cobra is a race car of the sixty's We have made improvements to the suspension, tires, frames, and drivetrains. All race cars I have seen have sometype of roll bar in them,(welded) for safety. There are alot of ignorant, arrogant, silly people in the world, a few own cobras. There are maybe 2000 people that can drive this car to it's full potential. I am not one of those few. This car is as jumpy as my CJ5 jeep. I learned to treat that car with respect after a roll over. This car should be treated like a loaded gun in the house. If it is played with, it goes off in any direction and nobody can stop the bullet, same with the car. Schools can help alot with the right instructors, with dumb ones someone will get hurt. You can drive this car on the street normally and even showoff a LITTLE and enjoy it. I donot want to see anyone get kill or hurt from these cars. Have a go time showing them off but don't get stupid. You have kids, wives, friends, workers, and enemy's. Nobody like Wakes.
Chaplin I have 2 rotten eggs for your gas pedal when your car is done Rick Lake

[KobraKarl]

Chaplin,

I was going to respond to your post as soon as i dug those race technique books out of one of my bookcases but I cant seem to put my hands on them. One was Bob Bondurants book in paperback (something of a text book for his school) . The other was Skip Barbers book. they were very informative and really helped me understand intellectually, what I already knew "by the seat of my pants" and then some .

The spooky thing that really threw me was , while experimenting at fairly low speed (under 40) with "drift " through sharp corners , and using power oversteer, when the rear end would start to come around , if you got nervous and "lifted" the weight would transfer to the front on decceleration making the rear even lighter and It would try to get sideways even faster. A freaky experience when you are 'lifting" to try and gain control!

both were good reads and good referance

KK

[GeorgiaSnake]

KK it's called trailing throttle oversteer and can bite you on the ass.

Randy

[Excaliber]

We have regular "drifting sessions" at Hawaii Raceway Park. Every second Saturday of the month.

Learning good drifting techniques saved my butt when I was running an "open track" event and lost my brakes. I knew it was either "drift" the next corner or hit the tire wall. I grabbed second gear early to "lock up" the rear and start the "drift". That scrubbed off a lot of speed.

I made the corner all right, but the skid marks were substantial,,,,on the track and IN the car.

Funny thing about "drifting". Learning to "drift" will clearly increase your road racing skills. But being a good "road racer" does not neccessarily make you a good "drifter".

Ernie

[KobraKarl]

Uuuuuuuhhh ............................howzat !!

[Excaliber]

Drift, defined:
Forward movement of the car must not STOP at any time. A doughnut is NOT a drift. It is massive throttle over steer at best!

The principles in road racing are,,,,DON'T DRIFT, lol. It is NOT the fastest way around the track so it's not something road race drivers work on. Note the NASCAR boys doing the "doughnuts" after their victory, it looks cool. BUT it's NOT a "drift" by any means.

I think they COULD drift, I'd love to see them hang the a$$ end out and HOLD it in a nice big arc the car burning rubber and moving sideways AND forward in a controlled slide. probably can't do that on a banked track.

And then there is the skid pad thing. As soon as the car "breaks loose" the "test" is over. So,,,,what if you continued to apply throttle and let the a$$ end slip out and HOLD that position for as long as you could? 360, once, twice? VERY hard to do, with BIG horse power it's easy to START a drift, HARD as hell to hold it!

But if a young man learns to drift and THEN goes road racing, he learns much quicker. Most of the road race guys I "hang with" think drifting is "stupid" and don't care to learn it. I've seen plenty of them "spin out" and do a little "farming" in the dirt too! Maybe THEY COULD benefit from a drifting session or two!

I use OLD tires on some OLD and SKINNY Mustang rims on my Cobra when I drift. They have like NO traction and I may burn through a set or two in ONE DAY. When you get some traction race tires on after that, you feel like you can conquer the world!

Note some of the UGLY wheels on my car in the gallery. Trying different techniques with "skinny" tires up front or in the back and combinations thereof.

Ernie

[petek]

Randy said it best, "The answer is you race on the track and cruise on the street."

I'll add that the experience you develop on the track will help to keep you out of trouble on the street!

[Jahred]

Bob, what a great post. I have done some Porsche time trialing, but am still a novice with Cobra. That comment answered a good part of the unknown for me! And I think I will leave it that way!

"Most people are not used to the quick transition between power-oversteer and trailing throttle oversteer when you back off the throttle quickly. Ya' just can't do that with grace. A big-block car with 450 bhp is not what I would describe as toss-able."

[SCOBRAC]

I pay about $120 a year. But I'm an optimist..

[Dior55]

Going back to the original inquiry of this thread, my thoughts on why we're seeing an increase in crackups is possibly due to leaving one's brain in one's garage when we take these monsters out even for a leisurely cruise.

I simply cannot remember the last time that I drove my Cobra without some testosterone laden person wanting to blow my doors off, race me or otherwise create an unsafe situation. I find that other drivers have a tendency to see a Cobra and, if they have a reaction, it's normally along the lines of either: (1) I gotta pass this thing because I want to show this guy just how quick my Miata is; (2) I gotta see this beauty going down the road; or (3) maybe I can goad this guy into showing me just how much power this baby makes. I have to keep telling myself that this is a 4 wheeled motorcycle, I don't have the airbags or other safety equipment that the Bimmers trying to race me have, I have a family that needs me, and who gives a good $hit about who is going to get to the next red light the fastest!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that in these cars, probably more than any other, we're constantly being tempted. AVOID the temptation and live to enjoy the car, the family and your friends!

[Traveller]

Don't forget the spring unloading effect. It happened to me when I first got my car and I can assure you I'll never forget it.

[casaleenie]

Dior 55,


That pretty well sums it up for me...
Probably the thing that is the most aggravating is when the family sedan pulls up on the freeway and hangs left rear just wanting to see the car... They eventually pull ahead and give you a thumbs-up but it's distracting.
I was told by the previous owner to completely ignore the rice-burners- You know you can beat them and they expect it, but it makes them insane when you pretend they're not there....
It's what the Corvette owners do when you pull up... absolutly no eye contact..... They look the other way or turn...

[Dior55]

Originally posted by casaleenie


Dior 55,


That pretty well sums it up for me...
Probably the thing that is the most aggravating is when the family sedan pulls up on the freeway and hangs left rear just wanting to see the car... They eventually pull ahead and give you a thumbs-up but it's distracting.

Absolutely. Or you'll be minding your business in the right lane, the SUV will pull in the left lane, speed up and then run along side you for about 3 miles, you slow, he slows, you speed he speeds, and in 5 minutes there is a new traffic pattern building behind you. All the while his giant tires are drowning out your pipes and whatever pleasant thoughts you might have had. That's why I avoid highways whenever possible and take the back roads.

Saturday some guy in a 5 series Bimmer pulls behind my on the parkway, follows me for about a mile (on my bumper) then does a dramatic lane change and accererating all the while. I'm doing about 70, and he flies by at about 90. Red light comes, (he's been sitting there for 10 - 15 seconds by the time I get there), and the light turns green -- he's flooring it and "chirping" his tires. Wow, was I impressed (tongue deeply embedded in cheek). He really showed me (like I cared) how manly he was in his 4000 lb. eurocoupe.

Unfortunately this is what you have to deal with on every trip.

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Traveller


Don't forget the spring unloading effect. It happened to me when I first got my car and I can assure you I'll never forget it.

What is that? (Sounds like something that might occur when Jamo exits the driver's seat)!

[Jamo]

[CSX 4039]

Originally posted by Traveller


Don't forget the spring unloading effect. It happened to me when I first got my car and I can assure you I'll never forget it.

No, seriously, what is this effect?

[Traveller]

Here's the layman’s answer.........

As you accelerate, the driveline torques over and weight transfers to the rear causing it to "squat". If you abruptly lift off the throttle during that hard acceleration the opposite happens:

1) the motor torques back

2) the rear "un-squats"

This can cause the rear end to become unsettled and, in a short wheel based car, traveling at high speeds, the results can be very…….well……."exciting".

[Chaplin]

What's the best way to avoid that- do you just ease off the throttle gently?

[bmalone]

I encountered the situation described above once, well more than once, but one time very severely. As mentioned is has to do with unloading the energy causing the sqaut. In a straight line, I did not think it was much. But, upon entering or exiting a corner, where the car is not straight, I really felt the unloading effect. I believe, were I not wearing a seat belt, I may have been pitched from the car. I am told Contemporaries exibit this trait and I have seen various fixes for it--torsion bars, etc.

The fix? Have been aware of issue and kept it in mind.

[flipper35]

AKA Trailing throttle oversteer.