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05-21-2003, 07:55 PM
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Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 85
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Not Ranked
Good point
A - Enzo has only been away from us for less than 15 years (most cars do not become collectible until longer than that, no?)
B- If someone buys SA, or just the fact that Kirkham will be in business virtually the same car will most likely be available...just without the signature on the dash...no? So, why would someone pay a substantial premium for a used vehicle they can purchase brand new? I agree with the mystique, but as much as people worship CS, I can't imagine logical people seeing a big premium in a car that was made when his name was on ownership of the SA Company as opposed to someone else like FF...if it is substantially the same car.
Jordan
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05-21-2003, 09:03 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 15,712
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Well,,,,I could be wrong, it's pretty hard to forecast the future. But if I had to bet on a "post" Shelby Cobra vs one built during Shelbys time, I'd take the old "original" (dare I say "real"?) one everytime!
Ernie
Last edited by Excaliber; 05-21-2003 at 09:18 PM..
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05-21-2003, 09:05 PM
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Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 85
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Fair enough Ernie..I can understand your viewpoint. Have a good night...back to work!
Jordan
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05-21-2003, 09:18 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Northport,
NY
Cobra Make, Engine: Kirkham, KMP178 / '66 GT350H, 4-speed
Posts: 10,362
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Quote:
Originally posted by DanElam
When you take everything into consideration, my guess would be that FFR and/or the Smiths are buying Venture which would give them effective control over SAI for the least amount of money.
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Dan... it's highly unlikely that FFR is buying Venture. 
They are a $2 billion/yr corporation:
"The company is a leading maker of injection-molded plastic components for automotive OEMs. Products include interior systems, cockpit modules, front-end systems, exterior trim, and closures and panels. Venture Industries also offers design, preproduction, engineering, assembly, tooling, and logistics services to most of the world's automakers. Customers include GM, Ford, DaimlerChrysler, BMW, and Volkswagen. The company offers engineering and technology services in Asia, Australia, Europe, and North America and continues to expand into new regions."
Venture ran into financial trouble over U.S. debt it carries for its Peguform unit in Europe. Peguform was declared insolvent by a German bankruptcy court in May. Venture filed for Chapter 11 protection and the CEO stepped aside.
Their association with SAI supposedly began with being a supplier to them for Series One components. They subsequently invested with a majority stake.
Scaling the two entities, the SAI position is a minor part of Venture.
(..just trying to add some facts here...  ...sorry, don't know what came over me)
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05-21-2003, 09:21 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2001
Location: Fresno,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: KMP 184/482ci Shelby
Posts: 14,441
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Ron...shame on you.
__________________
Jamo
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05-21-2003, 09:23 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Seattle, WA,
Posts: 1,389
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thankyou ron, this topic was starting to need a little ballast.
__________________
Foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of tiny minds
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05-21-2003, 09:43 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: North Metro Atlanta,
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Cobra Make, Engine: 2 dr roadster, V-8, 4 spd.
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Quote:
Originally posted by computerworks
Their association with SAI supposedly began with being a supplier to them for Series One components. They subsequently invested with a majority stake.
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I bet someone's bragging about that decision right now...NOT!!  |
05-21-2003, 10:40 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Jun 1999
Location: Bay Area,
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Cobra Make, Engine: What Cobra?
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There was a comment about the "look on Shelby's face" if this did happen.
That statement right there says it all.
If it did happen, do you really think it was happening without his knowledge? Did you all think this was a hostile takeover?
The rumor itself has more accuracy than that. It said, FFR is buying SAI. Not reposessing it.
When I sold my car, the only look on my face was a look of relief, and sadness because something I loved very much was going bye bye. There was no look of surpise.
I sold it, someone bought it.
Why turn this possibility into another controversy? Who cares what the cars will be worth or not. It will be a passing of an era, and that to me is a sad day.
Not becuse who the buyer is, but because who the seller was. IF it is true....
TURK
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OBAMA IN in 2012
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05-22-2003, 08:03 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Texas,
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Cobra Make, Engine: CSX 4039 427 FE 1966- SOLD
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Quote:
Originally posted by Turk
There was a comment about the "look on Shelby's face" if this did happen.
That statement right there says it all.
TURK
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My guess is that he would distance himself from the company, and then start attacking it as being a crap product. Blood (old bitter feelings) is thicker than water (profits when your an 80 year old millionaire).
Just a thought. 
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My carbon footprint is bigger than your carbon footprint.
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05-22-2003, 08:28 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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This has nothing to do with the on going rumor or whatever it is, but about three months ago I saw Shelby on TV where some guy was inteviewing him. I don't remember all the details but one thing about the interview did catch my attention and some of us talked about it. Shelby said " I am getting old and tired and I think it is about time I retired and spent my time with my cows in Texas." That isn't the exact wording but it is what was said and we wondered then if he was getting sicker or what had brought that remark on. I thought it may have been brought on by the lawsuites and fights with FFR but now I wonder if there was more behind it than that. And it may mean nothing. He could have just been feeling bad as he realkly didn't look that well on that day.
Ron
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05-22-2003, 08:28 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Just wondering .....
Has anyone seen, heard, read any thing any where that suggests SAI is in any financial trouble??
Iv'e been readind these three or four related threads for days and I dont remember seeing anything regarding SAI insolvency.....
I must have missed something ....I cant really connect Venture Capital's problems with its european division to an SAI sell-off unless the speculation is They are going to liquidate assets to reorganize.....but ..I.. havn't read that any where.....
Turk ,I suppose someone could speculate that with a majority interest in SAI, Venture could do as they please with or without the blessing of Mr. Shelby........of course the idea that this would catch him by surprise seems a tad silly .
KK
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Foolish consistancy is the hobgoblin of tiny minds
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05-22-2003, 09:23 AM
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Banned
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: New Jersey,
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Cobra Make, Engine: Shelby Cobra CSX4206 aluminum body, original 1965 NASCAR 427 SO, Dual quads.
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I agree with Turk.
Assuming hypthetically that this "rumor" is true (which I believe is a bunch of hoohy) it would be a sad day to see the production of the Continuation Cobra end.
The existing CSX 4000's, 7000's would the the last of the Mohicans. The last of the breed. They would end up being rare indeed!
It would be a sad day.
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U.S. Army Rangers. Leading travel agents to Allah.
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05-22-2003, 10:08 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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I got the impression that Venture originally purchased it's interest in SAI as a way of demonstrating it's ability to provide "parts" and "materials" to the specialty car market.
It was more about being "associated" with the right people and less about "making" money by "selling cars". When your a BIG company you do things to ehance your over all "image" in the market. Have YOU ever bought anything FROM Venture? Probably not, but theres a good chance YOU are using their product somewhere in your daily life!
Did you ever wonder who Delphi really is? Who are these people? Who is Venture?
If your driving a Ford (Toyota, Chrysler, GM and others), theres a good chance your sitting in the seats the company I work for MADE and SOLD. We make all kinds of hi tech automotive related "stuff". Chevy Venture interior with TV's and Bug Bunny? We did that! Got a Die Hard battery in your car? WE make that and SELL it to Sears! What are those new "spiral" batteries? WE just bought that company! Buying a drink in a plastic bottle? Good chance WE made the bottle! We sponsor a race car series. We are international. Heck, we probably make coat hangers too, were everywhere and YOU probably never bought ANYTHING from us! 
Who are we? Johnson Controls Inc. (and I wouldn't be surprised if we bought Venture in the near future)! Maybe I'll transfer to Vegas when we do! 
Ernie
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05-22-2003, 10:24 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Menomonie, Wisconsin,
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Ernie:
Just a point of cliarifcation, Enzo Ferrari died in 1988. A year and a half later collector car prices were at the proverbial dot.com stock levels of 2,000. The biggest bubble in automotive collector history. The price of Ferrari's, and everything else automotive for that matter, dropped like a rock after 1990.
The relationship between Ferrari's values skyrocketing and falling was a direct result of the market place, not necessarily Enzo's death. The so-called "death effect" on a particular Marque is very hard to predict. Personally, I think Carroll is going to live to 130, so the point may be moot.
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05-22-2003, 01:26 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Point well taken Cal. Who knows how it will pan out down the road!
Shelby is one tough guy, he just might live to 130. He's got more heart(s?) than I do. LOL
Ernie
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05-23-2003, 10:42 AM
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CC Member
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: NSW, Australia,
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Ga Day Mates!
SAI do not own the rights to Cobra, Shelby, his signature or image. If you look back through the Shelby/Ford court docs you can see that Shelby was given the rights to Cobra as it applies to 1960's cars, so the fact is that Shelby owns all brands and trademarks used by SAI. My source tells me that these brands and trademarks were licensed to SAI by Shelby's licensing company and due to a number or reasons were revoked 6 months ago! Beware FFR...SAI have nothing but old pieces and parts to cars with no name or brand, I understand that even Shelby American Inc. was licensed in the deal.
You know mates, I have watched this board for several months and have seen a lot of speculation on the Venture/Shelby/SAI world. I felt I had to tell ya what I know.
But no worries...through it all Cobra will survive!!!!
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05-23-2003, 11:19 AM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Folsom,
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Cobra Make, Engine: ERA 623, 427 S/C Cobra. Ford FE 428 Cobra Jet, Ford Nascar TL 4speed - with a touch of raw; "less is more" theme
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stop being made?
Just curious... If FFR did/does buy SAI, why are some of you under the impression the CSX4000 and CSX7000 cars would not be made any longer? It would be business suicide for FFR to buy the company and discontinue building these cars. My guess is they would just be leveraging and expanding their lineup of products, now including the signature cars.
Personally, I wouldn't care if they were made when Shelby owned it or if another company owned it as long as the final product quality was the same or better. Parts are parts, these cars are made of parts, and I'd bet most (not all) of the parts would continue to come from the same suppliers. Probably would continue to get built by the same plant people too for the most part. Just my .02 cents on it, IMHO.
__________________
Duane
Western States Cobra Group 1998-2016.
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05-23-2003, 12:06 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Rocky River, Ohio,
OH
Cobra Make, Engine: Everett-Morrison, 347 Tri-power Stroker
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Gotta love these rumors...
Kinda reminds me of the guy in Michigan who invented the noiseless, odorless elephant repellant, he proved it worked by saying; "Well, you don't see any elephants around here do yah? So it must be working!"
- Dan
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05-23-2003, 12:57 PM
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Senior Club Cobra Member
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Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Gilford,
NH
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 302 carb
Posts: 8,121
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Just read this....I have no coment either way.
Jim,
Did I make this video or am I on the cutting room floor again.....
Damn, models.... 
Mike |
05-23-2003, 10:54 PM
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CC Member
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Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Morro Bay,
CA
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR 3243. 5.0 (for now), 5-spd.
Posts: 188
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I have requested the link to the original source of the story and the facts supporting it, so far have not found it.
I am glad I bought my FFR. Now I just need to get it put together.
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