diagnostic tools

[hockey44]

Help please,
I will be visiting USA in 2 weeks and want to buy 'advance style timing light' and vacuum gauge to set Holley HP. I have been looking on the net and Snap-on is crazy price and looking for suggestions for best 'quality/price' ratio. I came across Ferret and Sunpro plus of course Craftsman (they do not have the knob advance feature). Any suggestions on best quality brands and how to order via net greatly appreciated.

Anything else you would recommend for tuning besides advanced timing light and vacuum gauge? I have F351C 4v Boss which will soon get a Blue thunder manifold and 4160HP HOlley. It has MSD dist. plus 6AL etc.

Many thanks all from Switzerland (prices are a killer with the weak $ here!).

Ed

[scottj]

Use a cheap non-advance light, never an advance light with an MSD box.
Scott

[427 S/O]

I believe there were some problems using advance timming lights with MSD?,
do a search. vaccum gauges are vacuum
gauges, just don't buy the one for $1.99.

[Roscoe]

Ed,
I use the Equus non digital. Everyone is correct when they say the digital does not work with the MSD electronic ignitions.

http://www.timinglight.com/hi-tech/diy_series.htm

The model 3555 has a dial on it for setting the timing.

If you are going to be in the New York area let me know.

Roscoe

[Charlie]

Well it seems I have done the impossible then. I never heard that you can't use a dial-to-zero timing light with an MSD system. I have set my timing several times with my Summit bought timing light (sorry, don't remember the brand) and I have an MSD-7 digital box. The dial-to-zero feature was really handy.

Why do you guys say don't use this timing light with an MSD?
Charlie

[Roscoe]

Charlie,
I think we are referring to the digital, electronic timing lights.
Roscoe

[scottj]

Because MSD says not to.

They don't say it is impossible to set the timing. In fact you definitely will set it... but not necassarily to what it shows..

[Roscoe]

From the MSD Tech site:

Timing Fluctuations
If your timing seems to be jumping all over the place, check the following items:

What kind of timing light are you using? Many lights have trouble reading the MSD's capacitive discharge multiple sparks. Dial back timing lights are not recommended. Try another non-adjustable light and check the timing again. MSD offers a Timing Light, PN 8990.
Make sure you are not using Solid Core wires.
Inspect the routing of the Magnetic Pickup Harness. It should be routed clear of the coil primary wires and plug wires. It is best to route it along a ground plain such as the firewall, frame or engine block to form a shield around it.
Check the polarity of the magnetic pickup wires of the distributor. Reverse the connectors and check the timing again. The correct polarity is whichever connection gives the most retarded timing.
On Chevrolet engines, if the timing is retarding 10 - 20 degrees inspect for cam-walk. This is especially prevalent on engines with a chrome or stock timing chain cover that is actually bowing forward allowing the cam to "walk".

[hockey44]

can I assume Roscoe that with that Equas you are happy and it does the job? I was advised by another 351C with MSD plus 6AL that to be sure I got the knob to advance as well as it makes life easier, I never meant a digital style- sorry for any confusion.

Might be in NYC in the coming months- a daughter there studying (oldest of 5 kids!).

Ed

[Roscoe]

The 3555 Equus works with my MSD Digital 6 Plus unit. I have had no problems.

By the way, I am about 15 miles from NYC in New Jersey. Let me know when you are coming in and we'll have a beer together.

Roscoe

[hockey44]

will do- born in 'the city' and grew up in Burlington, VT!

I saw MSD sell a timing light via Summit- do you think that one makes most sense or go with your Equas? I am far from an expert at these things. If you get the MSD light then how do you adjust for retard and advance?

Ed

[Mr.Fixit]

I have a 1991 made craftsman dial back timing light, it works fine with MSD-6 and -7 series boxes. If the light is jumpy, than switch the green and purple pick-up wires that connect to the distributor. Unless you have a degreed balancer (who does?) or like timing tape, the dial back is the way to go. Set the knob to 34 or whatever total timing you want, have your buddy rev up the motor till it quits advancing and hold the rpm's steady, and turn the distributor till the line is on the pointer. Lock down distributor and recheck. You can spend big money on the digital snap-on timing light, but it tells you the same thing.

[Roscoe]

Ed,
I can't speak for the MSD light but I like the Equus. Sold by Summit or Jegs and many others.

Roscoe

[Charlie]

Roscoe,
That is interesting news. I guess it doesn't work with some timing equipment. I have been fortunate then. I can see how the multiple spark would cause a problem and I DID think of that when I first tried it. But it seemed to work fine so I assumed that it triggered on the first MSD discharge and that the subsequent one did not have any effect. There was no appreciable scatter that prevented me from getting a setting.

I have never tried a digital timing light. I have always used the standard type, just recently got this dial-back type, and I love it.

By the way, my middle name is Roscoe!
Charlie

[hockey44]

Charlie and Roscoe,
What do you think of "Craftman Professional timing light, inductive advance". It looks like it has a dial knob on the back and costs about $70? Will this do the trick together with a say craftsman vacuum guage so I can get the timing and Holley HP to work as it should or will I require more sophisticated 'ingition analyzer'?

thanks

[Roscoe]

In my humble opinion, Craftsman makes fine tools. You may want to send MSD tech an email and ask if there are any 'issues' with it.

Otherwise, I'd say 'go for it!'

Roscoe

[Mr.Fixit]

If you want to play with your Holley, get replacement metering block and fuel bowl gaskets (many), nylon bowl screw gaskets, an assortment of: vacuum secondary springs (if applicable), pump cams, squirters, jets, power valves, bowl vent baffles, and one or more of the good books available to help you tune that Holley

[Hal Copple]

I have used my digital Equus, from summit, i think it was about $150??, on my MSD 6AL'd SPF with no problems. As Fixit states, i just click it to show my 32 degrees on the digital window, aim down at my advance marker, reach over to the carb linkage, and rev the motor until my timing mark no longer moves any more, and make sure it lines up with my timing mark. I don't read any numbers on my damper, as my timing mark is not at TDC, but rather my builder put a tap o the block at my suggested Windsor 32 degrees.

By the way, when i timed my motor at about 3000 rpm, all mechanical, vacuum capped off, i had some detonatioin "ping", so i was then shown to be sure i reved the motor until my mechanical advance "was all in" on my motor about 4000 RPM.

For the record i have race Moroso wires, the MSD, and a digital Equues, it works perfectly, and is simple and foolproof, even for me.

[hockey44]

Thanks for your note. Here is an email I got from MSD- do they simply want to sell their own stuff??

Sir
We do not recommend using any dial back or digital timing light, a standard inductive timing light will work fine. The high voltage and multiple spark generated by the MSD unit can interfere with the electrical components of the adjustable timing light. We also suggest you run a degreed balancer or use degreed tap on your balancer.

THANK YOU

MSD TECH.

[Roscoe]

Ed,
Many here have stated that they have used this type of light so I guess MSD is just being cautious and recommending the plain vanilla kind. If you are going to use one other than the standard induction light then use one that was mentioned here. If it works for them it will work for you.
Roscoe