Flat tappet cam life

[Excaliber]

What? The oil filter will remove the EOS?

...just when I thought we had a handle on this... The whole subject is Teflon coated!

[jdean]

In that case I guess the oil filter is removing the STP as well.

[Excaliber]

Don't like hydraulic anything. Don't like the roller solids, all though if you spend ENOUGH money you can get a MODERN set up that works OK. This assumes you DO have the right kind of block to work with. Some side oiler blocks will NOT support a MODERN roller design OR hydraulic lifters of any kind! Flat tappet is your ONLY logical choice for any street application.

Besides, for good performance at a decent price it's hard to beat the flat tappet design.

Been there, broke that, no more solid rollers for me!

[Rick Parker]

I agree with Ernie, I prefer solid lifter flat tappet, very infrequent adjustment, good sounds (like an original) and no worries of a link bar coming apart or needle bearings being indiscrimenently disperssed throughout the engine. Lower cost can be considered a side benefit, but overall maintenance is less than with solid roller and for me was the main consideration. Using the correct oil is of course paromount.

[Wayne Maybury]

OK, the temperature of oil has been mentioned a couple of times. What is a good oil temperature range? I have an oil cooler, more for looks than performance, maybe I should by pass it.

I rebuilt a 289 hi po 271 HP many years ago. The factory rod bearings had holes in them, the new ones didn't. I drilled holes in the new bearings to match up with the holes in the rods. I ran the hell out of that engine for years afterwards with no problems. Those little holes certainly add lubrication to the cylinder walls and the cam & lifters.

Wayne

[Snakebit]

I just read a test by Amsoil on motorcycle oil. Mobil MX4T had a zinc content of .017. SH rated. SM rating meets the cat converter regs and has a lower zinc content.

This is a synthetic oil which was mentioned in another test by the GM engineer, does not cling to metal parts over a period of time as well as regular oil. If we are storing our cars for short periods of time, it would make more sense to use a conventional oil. He saw no advantage of using synthetic over conventional and that all oil should be changed at 3000 miles.

So for flat tappet cams is the general consenis Shell Rotella?

[Jerry Clayton]

Wayne

A good temp range is 240f to 270f--Needs to be hot enough to boil out water condensation
Most of the heat that gets into the over plumbed/over cooled oil systems of most of these cars come from the pressure rise in the oil pump itself

Jerry

[cfm]

CurtC1 from the Shell Oil Forum:

My thread got poofed for I mentioned some other companies' oils we have had success with.

Valvoline Racing Oil (available at NAPA) has been working out real well for a while now.

Joe Gibb's Racing oil : http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/products.php has been working extremely well also for many builders. They have a terrific break in oil also.

Remember - for break in you should ALWAYS use GM's EOS available at most GM dealers and all GMPP Dealers.

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I too have been looking for typical on the shelf in regular store oil that people can use to stop this madness, but no companies will really fess up.

Issue is: ZDDP in decent amt's can lead to pre-100k mile catalytic converter malfunction. Auto industries converted to hyd roller cams to be able to use oils without much ZDDP. Remember, they have to warranty these and some other emmission items for 100K miles in most states.

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Hope this helps you guys somewhat.

[cfm]

Oh, one last tid bit to put out there since obviously you guys are into performance.

If you purchase good hyd roller parts and set the valve springs correctly, the only reason to ever go reg flat tappet is $$$$. But, wiuth the way these things have been wearing out it really hasn't been cheaper for many people.

Rollers will always make more power over a wider rpm band.

On SBC (sorry to mention those but that's what I work on) solid rollers have lived on the stret for many miles with good parts and the use of 'rev kits.' Rev Kits will keep the roller on the cam lobes during 'lash.' by preloading them.

I really don't like to use flat tappet cams anymore if we don't have to. Especially now with the wear issues.

[Excaliber]

Hydraulic rollers? You wimp, real men run flat tappets.

,,, I been dieing to say that, I feel much better now.

[KevinM]

Has anyone used the Crower mechanical roller lifters with the "High Pressure Pin Oiling" option? They claim it takes care of the needle oiling problems for street use on a mechanical roller.

Kevin

[Wayne Maybury]

Most of the heat that gets into the over plumbed/over cooled oil systems of most of these cars come from the pressure rise in the oil pump itself

Jerry, Can you expain your statement? Firstly, I am well aware of the heat gain when a gas is compressed (and conversely the cooling as it expands). Secondly, I always thought that much of the heat in motor oil came as it is cooling certain parts of the engine. Why/how does the oil get hotter as it goes through the pump? Is this caused by friction or something else? If you are an engineer, please try to make the explanation using ordinary English so that I don't have to ask for a translation later on.

By the way, I don't think that I have ever seen my oil temp much over 240 F.

Thanks,
Wayne

[cfm]

Originally Posted by KevinM

Has anyone used the Crower mechanical roller lifters with the "High Pressure Pin Oiling" option? They claim it takes care of the needle oiling problems for street use on a mechanical roller.

Kevin

Yes, the pin oiling works wonders.
Rev Kits also really help out.
And lobes with non-drag race intentions really helps valvetrain life.

There are many street driven solid rollers out there with very good success and a ton of power of course.

Yes, I like solid flat tappets too. I didn't mean to sound like I didn't if I seemed this way.

Technology is going forward by leaps and bounds.

[Excaliber]

I start to get worried if mine ever gets that high, something must be wrong!

I have to drive on the freeway for quite some distance to EVENTUALLY get my oil temp up to around 80-90 c, less than 212 F. Now that could be the temp probe location, bottom front of the pan, or an inaccurate gauge (both are brand new). No oil cooler and no remote filter(s).

If I DID have an oil cooler, I would CERTAINLY by-pass it!

[Wayne Maybury]

Ernie

My oil temp is always higher than my water temp which is usually in the 180 to 190 F range.

Wayne

[Excaliber]

Wayne thats what my friends tell me with their Cobras as well.

I don't get it, maybe my temp sensor IS 'broke'? However, it was about the same thing with the OLD sensor\gauge as it is now. As well, about the same thing with the OLD motor and the new rebuilt one! Go figure...

[Jerry Clayton]

Wayne--comment about temp rise in pump--compressing a liquid will give a temp rise just as a gas-temp gained equal to power to turn pump--I have taken out many high volume/pressure pumps from engines replaced with normal pump/pressure and there has been lower oil temp and more power. And yes oil does cool things

Kevin? The high pressure roller needle bearing oiling of the new type rollers don't work in these engines as there is no lifter oil galley to supply pressure to the lifters.

Ernie--check your oil temp with a separate thermoneter--maybe a long meat style down the dipstick

Jerry

[KevinM]

Jerry,

I think some FE's had hydraulic cams, mostly 390s and 428s. I have heard that some 427s did and most didn't and therefore don't have the lifter galleys drilled. Genesis claims their lifter galleys are drilled to accept hydraulic or solid lifters.

Kevin

[Jerry Clayton]

Kevin

The first (1958) 332 and 352 engines were solid lifter with a midyear change to Hydraulics(identified with a orange mark on the valve cover) Later high performance only type engines were solid only without the galleys being drilled. I have made oil manifold logs in the galley area with a steel line going to each lifter boss so hyd could be used--I think most of the cam failures are in non oil galley lifter bores, with no oil getting around the tappet and running down on the cam.

Jerry

[Ant]

I am running Schubeck ceramic solid flat tappet camshaft, I have read posts where the only part that wears with this setup is the camshaft, so if my camshaft lasts 20-30000 miles that will be fine as I will probably give the engine a freshen by then.

Oil, I have been in touch with the Motul rep, and 15w-50 300 competiton did really well in some tests, better than Castrol RS 10W-60, the reason is simple Motul is full synthetic like Amsoil oil and a couple of others, derived from Coconut Oil, the Motul 15w-50 has an additive to give it reasonably change interval, but if racing etc its obviously a good idea to change it more often, maybe max 2000 miles of mixed use road race use, or if it gets dirty. This stuff aint cheap probably about USD$150 per change. Apparently Motul follows closely behind Amsoil for Zinc/Phospherous, and this can deplete after 1000 hot hard race miles, that is a lot of racing!

Another precaution but a hassle my engine is dry sump so I can prime off the electric drill with drive belt removed, will do that if it hasnt been going for a period.