Worlds Fastest Cobra

[Excaliber]

It takes a very good head using todays best technology to equal or better the flow of heads available in the mid 60's. High Risers (1964 last year of production) were outlawed in 1965 by NASCAR, for instance. The Tunnel port/wedge heads of yesteryear are another example. These STOCK heads will STILL outflow just about any stock head you can buy today. Edelbrock can't do it without significant machine shop work. It is not unreasonable to speculate that 700 or more horse could be had with an FE in the '60's. A horse power number that is STILL pretty rare for even a well built modern FE today.

NASCAR started down sizing from big blocks and restricting the engines in other ways for one simple reason: The cars were to fast, and aerodynamics was nothing to compared to todays technology.

By the way, what Dyno didn't mention in his 'short story' was that the Coupe at Bonnevile had a slipping clutch toward to the end of it's record breaking run. It 'limped' to the finish and STILL set a significant record!

[Ant]

Well the late Dick Smith certainly had a fine Cobra and a great history!

I had a Cobra now owned by Bevan Wright in New Zealand, this car was Kevlar bodied (which actually counts for nothing) running an aeroscreen, had a 12.5.1 comp LS7 Hilborn injected Chevrolet 454 engine, supposed to be between 650 - 700 bhp, I ran an easy 7200rpms in top gear with a 3.1 rear end ratio on 335/35/17 tires, that works out at 175mph this car regularly achieved timed speeds on NZ (shortish) race tracks at 172mph!

I think Bevan has had 190mph out of the car since with a bit more HP and the car was still pulling strong and would rev through 7200rpm easily, with a 2.88 rear end and a bit of work who knows, but I think Dick Smiths speed record would be hard to beat in a cobra. The car I am currently building has 2005 Nascar engine technology with almost 700bhp, that and the lighter weight/size is why I chose a SBF over the FE due to engine developments since the 1960's and probably more to the point the modern reliability factor, but time will tell on that one!!

I have just about finished the book about New Zealander Burt Munro, "the worlds fastest Indian" Burt as some of you will know did 201.5 mph at Bonneville on a 1920 model Indian motorcycle with a much modified and revolutionary developed Indian engine, and the stories of his friends Ed (Isky cams), Donald Campbell and Breedlove etc and many others all for the quest for speed, or as its known the "Gods of speed" is just fantastic reading.

[Mike Bartlett]

David D

Funny you mention about the over exaggerations that some people claim. This past weekend at the WSCB myself and a few other Cobra owners got into an elevator with some guy. He said he road in his buddy's Cobra at 160-MPH over the Bay Bridge to SF. He got out at the next floor. When the doors closed the 3 of us looked at each other and rolled our eyes simultaneously.

Oh well I guess that sort of thing keeps the Cobra stories going?


Mike

[DavidinDurango]

Always remember: "Got a time slip?"

Speedos say one thing . . . .

Originally Posted by Mike Bartlett

David D

Funny you mention about the over exaggerations that some people claim. This past weekend at the WSCB myself and a few other Cobra owners got into an elevator with some guy. He said he road in his buddy's Cobra at 160-MPH over the Bay Bridge to SF. He got out at the next floor. When the doors closed the 3 of us looked at each other and rolled our eyes simultaneously.

Oh well I guess that sort of thing keeps the Cobra stories going?


Mike

[RICK LAKE]

Mike I talked to Smithy a dozen times about his record. It is fact and done. The small caught was that Ken Miles was behind him at over 200+ and coming. Just like nascar, drafting makes 2 cars go faster than 1. Joe B also built a 700+hp motor to push the cobra that fast and they dropped the front end 1" to stop the frontend lift at high speeds. He said that the frontend still was trying to lift and the tires where just touching the track at the 195 speed. Even with an iron motor, a cobra can be an airplane if going fast enought. Rick Lake

[Michael4yah]

I bet that opening in the front acts like a huge cow catcher for air. Definately have to add in some downforce if you wanna stay safe. Also short of tying the windshield to a roll cage I dont see it lasting at 200 mph. I know that Dick used a comp windscreen , How about Ken Miles?? Setting high speed records will always be about how stock the body was at the time. A little air dam on the front would do wonders but then it wouldnt be stock.
Michael

[Roger Stine]

March 2007. Dick and Heater Smith cruised for 10 days with Karen and I on our sailboat in the Caribbean. The happy AAARR stories were endless and Dick is the greatest of speakers be it one on one or to an audience of thousands.

I'll be brief and share one detail he told me. Years ago air vents were cut into the front wheel splash guards of #198 CSX 3035 and covered with a screen mesh to relieve pressure in the front wheel wells.

Last year Dick graciously asked me "you want to drive it?" The location was Willow Springs "The Fastest Road in the West" and I will never forget the experience. He showed me how to start it and off I went. Up to that day knowone had every offered to even let me sit in an original Cobra let alone the FASTEST one of them all.

I've made the same splash guard vent cutouts in my carbon fiber Factory Five, the same FFR that Dick did some test laps in at Run and Gun 1999.

Roger

[Ant]

Hey Roger, you have some great memories to cherish of a special person!

I am wondering whether I should do that to my car, I guess they will have to go up in the inner guard curve to do anything at all, but in my case exiting back into the engine bay may do nothing at all, with all the radiator air.

"Wild bill you have done a good job with the GT40 radiator reliefs in the hood area! I dont think I want to go that far, as I already have a larger carb hood scoop, which needs some ducting shielding to improve that! Some of the UK racing Cobra employ the Ferrari 250GT, three half circle reliefs in the nose, but I dont want my car looking like the opposition.

[Michael4yah]

No question Dick Smith will be remembered as one of the best. But at Daytona he had Ken Miles in his rear view mirror. Does anyone know what the overall effect of drafting @ near 200 mph speeds would be? Also was there any downforce due to a banked track ? Theres no doubt that when it comes to top speed and validating everyones efforts they do it best at Bonnie during speed week.

[DAVID GAGNARD]

Originally Posted by Michael4yah

No question Dick Smith will be remembered as one of the best. But at Daytona he had Ken Miles in his rear view mirror. Does anyone know what the overall effect of drafting @ near 200 mph speeds would be? Also was there any downforce due to a banked track ? Theres no doubt that when it comes to top speed and validating everyones efforts they do it best at Bonnie during speed week.

I've been 170 mph around the Daytona oval (3 consecutive laps), yes in the corners you can "feel" the car being pulled down by the 30 something degree banking, the straights are banked also, but you can't really "feel it", at least I couldn't.......
BTW: the track is/was a lot rougher/bumpier than what you see on the tv in a NASCAR race......at least it was 10 years ago when I was on it....rather large "bump" coming off turn 4 about the time you get the car pointed down the front straight, first lap my belts were not that tight and my butt actually came off the seat a tad, after the bump I reached up and grabbed the shoulder belts and pulled them down as hard as I could and that kept me planted in the seat for the duration.........

Interesting point Bernie, I recall more than once at the race track people asking how fast I was going, what rpm did I hit at the end of the straight, etc.

Generally, I have NO CLUE! It's all I can do to focus on driving it and a glance at the guages is quickly forgotten in the heat of battle.

Been there,done that.....While running at the Nashville SuperSpeedway Road Course in my 65 fastback street car, a driving instructor asked how fast I was going down the front straight, told him it was all I could do to focus on driving and not screwing up to look at the speedometer, he asked about the rpms, told him I didn't look at the tach either.....he asked that I check it out next time out, so I did, before I had let off, I had the speedometer buried at 120 mph and still was in the gas another couple of seconds, scared the crap outa me...........had some good ole Wal Mart tires on the car at the time rated for all of 90 mph!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!a blowout or tire failure at 120mph would have been reallllllllllllll ugly, not to mention very dangerous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Came in and got a piece of duct tape and covered the speedometer after that, I didn't want to know!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

David

[Dominik]

Excaliber, you wrote:

7600 rpm, 29" tire (allow for GROWTH, could be even taller at speed), 3.31 rear gear, 1 to 1 trans gear= 198. 7700 rpm is 200 mph.

You have to consider tire slippage. Remember, at top speed you hit a "wall" of air which refuses to let you go faster. Naturally, your tires slip, similar to taking off from standstill.
A tire engineer would be able to give a solid number: 5%, 10%, which surely depends on rear axle downforce.

Dominik

[DMXF]

In '68 CSX3339 was taken to Bonneville with a 750hp TP engine and a special fairing behind the hard top, otherwise stock, and did 221.3 mph (documented in the registry).

[Jamo]

Always amazes me when Dick's run keeps coming back up by folks trying to run numbers 40 years later...

Lot's of stuff went into the speed achieved. Boghosian will tell ya it was his fantastic damn motor and Dick was just along for the ride. Dick would say it was his balls and that when you run for the championship, it doesn't what Joe gave him since it was going to be junk when he was done. Taller firestone tires cuz Goodyear was screwing with him, the lowered front, the vents, the long straight used in the Daytona road course in those days...

...and the Ford guys who said they had him clocked at over 200mph regardless of what France, et al said.

Having flown with him so much decades ago, I'd say them balls of his lowered the front of the car just enough...

[RICK LAKE]

I have talked to Joe B. about that motor, and was told it was MAGIC. My guess is about 14.5-1 in compression, AV fuel in the gas tank with 140 octane. Biggest cam that would fit and best flowing heads of that time. I bet there where Hemi valves in those heads for higher flow. The motor was iron except for the intake and carb. They wanted all the weight they could get in the front end. The motor was magic, but the nut behind the wheel had balls the size of King Kong and the rest is history. This is one record I hope is never broken. What's up with the FFR guys??? Rick L. Ps missed seeing that red cobra at SAAC in NJ. Hope it comes next year.

[RICK LAKE]

Dynoroom, Hey Mike can you build a motor with 7,800-8,000 rpm range that will live and make about 740-770 HP with a big power band?? No blowers or juice, just brute power. The problem also would be the need for a full rollcage that is certified. Dick didn't have to have one when he raced. That will cause some drag issues. I think you will have to sneak up on this MPH. More of a punch it to top end and get out of it without getting too loose. Rick L.

[dynoroom]

You guy's know this thread is like over 1 years old?

Rick, yes to the power & rpm. You would want a great cage but it needs no certs. As for drag, the car sucks aero wise so the cage is no big deal.

If you wanted to Really prove your speed you need a time slip. If you choose to do that at Bonneville it would be a 1 mile average so no getting up to speed and then out of it.

Want to set a record?

[Badger]

I seriously doubt any stock bodied Cobra roadster will match Dick Smith's Daytona speed of 198 mph, set at sea level, as Bonneville's 4200' asl will simply attenuate the power available. Now...let's try a run in Death Valley! What constitutes a record speed? Touching the top end for an instant or going two ways for a mile within the hour? BIG difference! Badger

[Jamo]

Pete...deleted the duplicate post for ya. Yup...gotta mix altitude with attitude. BTW, saw the trailer up close and personal in Monterey...is there a LSR for an auto carrier?

Mike...that was my point. This thing comes up every year.

Rick...Joe had two good arms back them...twice the motor.

[Keithc8]

The engine would not be a problem to do just need a car and someone crazy enough to drive it. I would even build the engine for this deal if someone has a good car and wants to drive it.
I might even drive it at Bonneville if the car was built right. Lets go set some records now. Any body got any ideals about this stuff and where we start. Maybe it could be a group project but would need all of the rules and class the car fits.
Also the head technology was way behind where it is today. The High Riser head and the Tunnel port head out of the box are nothing special and need the right port work and valve job to get the job done.
Bill Elliot went 208 mphs at Talladaga in a 3500 pound car in the 80s with 357 cubic inches and only about 650HP if that. I would say that the FE engines that pushed a Cobra to 198 with it weighing about 2500 to 2600 lbs with driver was more in the 600 to 650 range even though the aerodynamics were bad. No one had a 700 to 750 single 4bl 427 FE back then unless it was blown.
Let me know about the record program and if there are any takers on this project. Thanks, Keith Craft

[Jamo]

I'm thinking you're right about the horsies, Keith...Dick said he came off the corner carrying a sh!tload of revs...the straight was the "easy" part.

Who to drive? Hmmmmmm....Ernie.