rumor control--has SAAC lost its use of Shelby name?

[turnpike boy]

Originally Posted by clayfoushee

....... It is too bad a previous owner drilled holes in the POS, for these little badges he put on, but, of course, I can get those fixed at some point.

An interesting point.....I built with NO badges of any kind, other than the "AC" badge in the steering wheel. And have had even a 9-year-old boy readily able to identify the car as a Cobra - NOT as a Shelby.

REALly...who needs him?

[Curt C.]

[quote=RedCSX1]

Originally Posted by CSX 4039

Durt- I agree 100%.QUOTE]

Since I was at Peterson's covering the event for the Norcal Shelby Club. I saw Shelby sign FOR FREE autograph for anyone who wanted one on anything. I have proof of that all over my office. I guess you really are a leper or a liar.

Your diatribe is filled with inaccuracies and you place blame on Carroll for events in which he had no control or involvement in many of the situations, which you state. Here accuracies and facts are not important when most peoples goals are to slam an individual who is not here to defend himself.

Now you can go back to having fun.

Please take the time to point out the inaccuracies. I genuinely would like to know where Durt erred.

[Durt]

"Since I was at Peterson's covering the event for the Norcal Shelby Club. I saw Shelby sign FOR FREE autograph for anyone who wanted one on anything. I have proof of that all over my office. I guess you really are a leper or a liar.

Your diatribe is filled with inaccuracies and you place blame on Carroll for events in which he had no control or involvement in many of the situations, which you state. Here accuracies and facts are not important when most peoples goals are to slam an individual who is not here to defend himself.

Now you can go back to having fun."


As I stated in my post, all of the opinions and experiences I wrote about are mine. I am, indeed, not an investigator - so when I read that Shelby did this or Shelby did that, I have no idea who "Shelby" might be, that is absolutely true. But when I read in the LA Times an article on "Shelby" versus Superformance that specifically detailed "his" desire to confiscate all SPF replicas, you're damned right I'm going to "slam" him.
The fact that he brushed me aside at the Peterson was a momentary disappointment in a decade of "Shelby" related unpleasantness - none of which I pulled out of thin air to "have fun." I did not see any signage, because at that point, I didn't feel compelled to stand in line for an autograph free or otherwise - and if he does in fact not charge money for autographs, then you may call me a liar.

http://www.shelbychildrensfoundation.org/autograph.asp

I am not involved in the small print regarding "Shelby's" current attempt to shut down SAAC, but I can tell you this - I forwarded my "diatribe" to Rick Kopec whose main comment was: "You've pretty much hit the nail on the head except you didn't go far enough."

So, I'm sorry if my personal accounts rub you the wrong way, but if "Shelby" doesn't enjoy being vilified, perhaps "he" should spend more time projecting a positive image to guys like me who simply want to be an enthusiast and less time in the courtroom - both real and of public opinion.

[cobraviper_99]

After making the simple supposition that Shelby's reputation, image, and hero status within the Cobra community has skidded so far down the slippery slope of moral tolerance that enthusiasm for cars bearing his name or service mark have also suffered an equal amount of disrepute, I was told my examples were overdrawn or irrelevant. I observed that other automobile revolutionaries in the past who begged, borrowed, or stole their way to their ill-gotten goals never saw widespread villification of their cars based on how immoral or unethical their behavior. Ferrari was a cold-blooded super-ego who prized winning over the lives of his own drivers. Delorean began his quest with honorable intentions but eventually became a bunko artist to keep his visions viable. Bricklin was more interested in turning a buck than performing due diligence within his financial infrastructure and went down the tubes--with a ton of OPM. Mercedes and the the Nazi braintrust broke bread.

In none of the above examples did enthusiasts of those automobiles remove the emblems from them as a display of their unmitigated outrage at the misdeeds, atrocities, or self-serving shell games of the people who produced them. As I read the previous posts, my point has been made much better than I might have been able to.

Please keep in mind, I am casting no aspersions at anyone on either side of the argument. My motives weren't to pass judgment on the guilty or the innocent. There's a dynamic in the Shelby/Enthusiast relationship that appears to be unlike anything I've seen before. Right or wrong, good or bad, justified or unjust, something is definitely there.

[turnpike boy]

Viper, I can't help but observe that you equate the revulsion with Shelby the man with a measurable decline in interest in Cobras. I confess I'm thoroughly confused by that analysis.

Where in any of these posts did anyone say they're willing to abandon their Cobra because of him?

I haven't read that into any of these posts. What I HAVE read is that his officious attitudes have turned people off to supporting his current, ongoing outrages ala' this "club" of his. Will it affect purchses of KR500's? - doubtful, because just like a Cobra, one can revel in what it does rather than who it represents.

I've got no Ford badges on my Cobra either.....and if they were to make a car that fascinated me the way a Cobra has, I would freely buy one on that basis, despite the bigoted, arrogant, fascist pig that ol' Henry was.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by cobraviper_99

In none of the above examples did enthusiasts of those automobiles remove the emblems from them as a display of their unmitigated outrage at the misdeeds, atrocities, or self-serving shell games of the people who produced them. As I read the previous posts, my point has been made much better than I might have been able to.

not really... in none of the other examples....are there owners of replicas.

It's the replica guys that are de-badging (or at least talking about it).

I'm not concerned about any of this as it relates to my GT-350. I know what is and where it came from...and I'm comfy with that.

[Durt]

Interesting observations. I think the main difference is that, unlike Shelby, Ferrari, DeLorean and Bricklin never elevated themselves to celebrity status. Along with laurels, celebrity also provides a gigantic bulls-eye.
I am personally not burning my picures of Shelby or sticking pins in his wax image. I'm just disappointed to find out that Santa Clause has whiskey breath.
As far as the badging goes - part of "Shelby's" settlement with Superformance included the cessation of accessorizing the cars with Cobra badges - so in theory, we should all be popping those badges off our cars regardless of our intent.
Thank God Mr. Smiths doesn't want his gauges back.

[Jamo]

...write a book.

[Trevor Legate]

Originally Posted by Jamo

...write a book.

Somebody speak....???? :-)


A very good point Ron. Until the TRUE details of what's being asked for (or demanded) it might be wise to sit back awhile before reaching for the tar and feathers...and that info may be some time coming. (Back to the writing then)

[rdorman]

Will someone get the lights on the way out?

[Excaliber]

Cobraviper says,

There's a dynamic in the Shelby/Enthusiast relationship that appears to be unlike anything I've seen before.

Yup, that about sums up at least the replica owners, and many of the real owners. Certainly something I've never seen in any car club circles I've been in.

Good points Ron (CW), the torches will burn down, the mob will dissapate, in time. But right now, let the torches burn bright and the mob swell!

[Jamo]

CV99

Let me assplain it again...folks have choices with regard to buying new Cobras.

When I purchased my second Cobra in 2002, I had it narrowed down to buying a modern arruminum Cobra from either of the two sources. Financially, it didn't make a difference. Because of the lawsuits, threats and comments to the press from the Old Man at the time, I went with the non-label choice.

It was my choice...the cars were essentially the same (much closer in the details back then) and I happened to love the person running Shelby at the time (Bob Marsh...I miss him greatly), as well as folks who were working there (Gary, Kris, etc.). Unfortunately, Bob couldn't control what others in the organization(s) were doing on behalf of the Old Man (or at least in his name).

Others made the same choice. Others bought from Shelby. They are all great cars; they all fulfill the dreams to one degree or another.

When you [keep] saying there's a backlash against the car...in reality, it is the label that may be targeted, not Cobras in general. Seems to me, folks will always buy Cobras, and they will have different reasons for doing so.

If people were pissed at Enzo, they had to buy a competitor's Italian sportsracer,not a Ferrari (sparcely produced Ferris and the Miami Vice knockoffs notwithstanding). Hell, one tractor builder got so pissed, he built his own.

I'm one of those folks who could care less about a person's title or station in life. I've rubbed shoulders with more than a few "names" and the one quality I find with (thankfully) the majority of those folks is that there is a real person behind the label. That's who I like to get to know...the person, not the label. Either I like the person, or I don't.

The current production organization is being run by some damn good folks, and they are building great modern Cobras. Anyone buying one should be thrilled with the quality they are getting. Personally, I think they are worth the money even if the badge wasn't stuck on them, and that's why the current production operation is successfully turning things around.

How folks respond to Shelby's personal actions in the Cobra community may or may not affect their business, but let's be honest here...the production of new Cobras pales in comparison to the production of Mustangs, pens and watches wil the Shelby logo.

Evan started a thread over at the soon-to-be Shelby Team site's Cobra area. I found it interesting that late model Mustang owners came on there wondering what the hell kind of car Evan was even talking about...it took some pictures to get them to understand. There are very few threads in that area. The late-model Shelby Mustang areas are exploding. The SAAC site added similar areas, and they are taking off quickly as well.

That is where the real money is...for Ford and Shelby. As with early ads for 60s Shelby Mustangs, Cobras make nice halo backdrops to catch the eye.

I simply think your premise is far too simplistic.

As to others who try to stand on moral soap boxes...

Legal issues? One need look no further than George Carlin's mid-pack ranking of "Mongolian Cluster ****" to find a way of describing what theories and arguments will come home to roost at some conference table or before the bar. We (lawyers) don't line shiney sterile tools up on a tray and ponder which to use while someone pats the sweat from our brow while we either cheat death or create heaving chests for modern Barbies...we use chainsaws, and stitch back together whatever's left.

By the way...I can almost admit to caring. I think SAAC's done something wonderful in keeping the flame alive for all of us old farts who watched these little basturds run in places like Riverside in the 60s. I also recall staying up all night and feeling pride when Foyt and Gurney kicked some Italian ass because some Texass hardass decided to take it to the evil-doers at the time.

Problem with stuff like this is that everyone tries to lay present claim to the glory.

Some of us prefer to sit back a bit and see how it all develops...and drive the damn cars because they haul ass and provide us with the same feeling of freedom as riding a new Schwinn down a long stright hill.

[fsstnotch]

Ron, it is my understanding from here and SAAC's website that CS's intentions are to eliminate SAAC all together. The data that he "loaned" Kopec, by all means he should get back. But ANY info that SAAC has compiled otherwise, he should have no rights to. And he certainly should not be bearer of any part of SAAC's registry. This is work that they have compiled out of enthusiasm for the hobby. Not wealth!

I hope you are right. I know there are alot of original Shelby owners that are VERY scared should the registry fall into CS's hands.

Any pics of your 350?

[What'saCobra?]

AC will not remain buried.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by What'saCobra?

AC will not remain buried.

hmmm. good point. Excalibur...don't be to quick putting those AC badges on.

You could end up getting a letter from A.L.

[Jamo]

Trev...you could got straight to paperback since it would read like a Harlequin novel from hell.

[nikbj68]

Someone should tell Kopek to copyright S.A.A.C as I didn`t see mention of punctuation in the Shelby claim!

[edit]POSTCRASH! Are we on the same wavelength, Steve?

or hows about "ESSAYAYSEE"?

[VRM]

Originally Posted by nikbj68

Someone should tell Kopek to copyright S.A.A.C as I didn`t see mention of punctuation in the Shelby claim!

[edit]POSTCRASH! Are we on the same wavelength, Steve?

or hows about "ESSAYAYSEE"?

I think I said something similar a few pages back.
Copyright is a completely different thing than a trademark.
But perhaps they should trademark the S.A.A.C., or maybe just A.A.C., but with the image of the s shaped snake in front of it.

Steve

[nikbj68]

Originally Posted by VRM

I think I said something similar a few pages back.
Copyright is a completely different thing than a trademark.
But perhaps they should trademark the S.A.A.C., or maybe just A.A.C., but with the image of the s shaped snake in front of it.

Steve

Ooops, post in haste, get picked apart at leisure!
I did mean TM, not copyright! (but not editing above post, sir Jamo!!! )
Seriously though, the wording of the lawyer`s letter is so ambiguous to my uneducated english eyes.....maybe you American legalese read it clearer? as to be almost invalid.

[VRM]

Originally Posted by nikbj68

Ooops, post in haste, get picked apart at leisure!
I did mean TM, not copyright! (but not editing above post, sir Jamo!!! )
Seriously though, the wording of the lawyer`s letter is so ambiguous to my uneducated english eyes.....maybe you American legalese read it clearer? as to be almost invalid.

Yep, the letters seemed vague to me as well. Somebody posted a copy of the first letter, but it may have been on another forum.

I have not really formed an opinion about the whole thing yet as I think that there are things going on that none of us know about. The one thing I am not happy about is Shelby going for the SAAC trademark. Regardless of what might be going on behind the scenes, that just seems over the top and vindictive.
However, because I don't know what the full situation is I can't say that I would not have gone for the trademark myself. I just can't imagine a set of circumstances where that would be my response to a group that has supported me for decades.

I'm hoping that this will shake out with both groups alive at the end. I think the competition from another group and young blood would be good for SAAC, and the honesty, organisation, and integrity of SAAC will be good for Team Shelby.

Steve