Shelby vs SAAC

[cbgolz]

[font="Impact"]To Amy Boylan: Please respond to the request below: This seems to be an very innocent request to preserve the integrity of the "original" Shelby cars, and to prevent "fakes" which will surely abound if there is no watchdog for the Ford VIN/Shelby VIN link. Having these numbers in the public domain, you must admit is dangerous, and can seriously damage the value and integrity of these "original" and "preserved" cars. The links between the Ford Vins and Shelby #s have been carefully preserved, precisely to prevent this type of dilution and destruction of value. Please respond. We Shelby Owners (of the original cars) need to know that you are on our side, and will not publish all the link numbers and encourage fraud, which will surely unsue. There is too much money in the game now, and access to all original numbers will create chaos. We must be assured that these "linked numbers" will not be published, period. Please respond. This is a crucial issue to vintage Shelby owners. We have tremendous sums of money invested in preserving the few "original cars that remain, and we need to know that all of our investment of time and money is not in vain. If the "linked numbers " are published, there will be no way to distinguish between an original car and a clone with repro data plates, etc. This issue is paramount in importance to the maintenance of the original Marque. Please give your assurance that if you do get the SAAC records, that you will protect them as SAAC did. This is our only refuge against the scam artists. We need your help, and your assurance that the records will be protected and monitored as SAAC did. The registrars did a marvelous job of security.
My major concern, as the owner of a '65 GT350 and a '70 GT500 is that, if the records from SAAC are ever "turned over" to any other entity (CAI or anyone else), will the integrity of those records, including the original Ford VINs linked to the original Shelby cars, be maintained? If access to those linked VINs is made available to the general public, my fear is that it would unleash a torrent of fakes and clones with numbers to match the "real" original Shelbys. Whatever you all may say about SAAC, the one thing they have always held sacred is the protection of those original Ford VINs, to prove the authenticity of the original cars. Without that protection, I am confident that the value of the original Shelby production cars from '65 to '70 will plummet. Obviously, as the owner of two of these cars, my comments are self serving, but I know there are many other "original car" owners who share my feelings. We have all invested a ton of time and money restoring and preserving these vehicles, and have finally seen the values increase in recent years. I shudder to think what would happen to that valuation, if all of the Ford/Shelby VIN links were available in the public domain. I would like to hear Amy's comments about that possibility, which has been mentioned in several Shelby chat rooms between enthusiasts. We (as owners of the original Shelby cars) need to hear that our valuations will not be diluted due to widespread distribution of this Ford/Shelby link of VIN/car numbers. That would truly be a disaster for all of us who have preserved these cars in their original form. There is no room for fakes, and distribution of these numbers would destroy the integrity of the originals. Any comments, Amy?[/quote]

[cbgolz]

:mad: :mad:

[QUOTE to Amy Boylan

[font="Arial Black"][/font]

=cbgolz]Dear Amy,
My major concern, as the owner of a '65 GT350 and a '70 GT500 is that, if the records from SAAC are ever "turned over" to any other entity (CAI or anyone else), will the integrity of those records, including the original Ford VINs linked to the original Shelby cars, be maintained? If access to those linked VINs is made available to the general public, my fear is that it would unleash a torrent of fakes and clones with numbers to match the "real" original Shelbys. Whatever you all may say about SAAC, the one thing they have always held sacred is the protection of those original Ford VINs, to prove the authenticity of the original cars. Without that protection, I am certain that the value of the original Shelby production cars from '65 to '70 will plummet. Obviously, as the owner of two of these cars, my comments are self serving, but I know there are many other "original car" owners who share my feelings. We have all invested a ton of time and money restoring and preserving these vehicles, and have finally seen the values increase in recent years. I shudder to think what would happen to that valuation, if all of the Ford/Shelby VIN links were available in the public domain. I would like to hear Amy's comments about that possibility, which has been mentioned in several Shelby chat rooms between enthusiasts. We (as owners of the original Shelby cars) need to hear that our valuations will not be diluted due to widespread distribution of this Ford/Shelby link of VIN/car numbers. That would truly be a disaster for all of us who have preserved these cars in their original form. There is no room for fakes, and distribution of these numbers would destroy the integrity of the originals. Any comments, Amy?[/quote]

[RACER X #99]

What is it that is so hard for you to understand? Nobody is knocking CSX 4000 replicas they are the finest Cobras being REPRODUCED by Shelby. Since he was the originator his is the only Co. that can actually REPRODUCE a Cobra.
All the other companys are making look alike Cobras including Kirkham and some will argue that many of them are a better product but that is not the issue here.

Are they REAL Shelby Cobras, of course they are because they are being REPRODUCED by Shelby.

You and some of the other 4000 owners can argue all day about what is and is not REAL but in the end you own REAL Shelby REPRODUCTION.

I am not making this up here is a quote from Shelby in the May 25 1992 issue of Autoweek. "Hell, I may even get in the replica business myself."
The was before the REPRODUCTION Cobras came on the market.

I say if you have a problem with your car being called a replica maybe the problem is with you and not your car.

I only wish I could own your car, it would sure be a thrill on the back straight at WGI

[REAL 1]

Yeah, I do have a problem with my car being called a "replica". Its not a replica of a Cobra. It is a genuine Cobra. We all know what the intended infrerence/implication is by you and others referring the the Continuation series as a "reproduction" or "replica". Your use the word "replica" and "reproduction" is intended to imply it is not a real cobra but fake. Period. You know this.

I think the fair use of the word "replica" should be used for reference to all "non Shelby Cobra" look alikes. SAAC seems to agree with me and so does Team Shelby. This is all I've been saying for years and have been maligned for doing so. And..just so you know I have never knocked "replicas". I have high regard for the quality of cars such as ERA, Spf and others and admire them.

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original. Thats exactly what it is. This is not an "elitist" thing at all despite the allegations by you and others. Not at all. Such allegations were simply not fair or true.

Maybe if you were nice I might have even let you take 4206 on the back straight at Watkins Glenn or take her for a spin since you live close by but you haven't been very nice soooo ...forget it!

[Chaplin]

rep·li·ca /ˈrɛplɪkə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rep-li-kuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/replica

Seems to me that Series 4000 are the only true replicas.

Everything else is just a fakeydo!

But Continuation Series is an acceptable description as well.

[REAL 1]

Thank you Chaplin, but we've been down the "dictionary" road before. Nice try though.

The "replica" definition as used in the dictionary is really directed at items in the fine arts, statutes, paintings etc... All those replicated after the original are replicas/reproductions if coming from the original maker. Fine art originals are usually intended to be one of a kind and are usually not intended to be replicated at time of original creatin or impossible to replicate "exactly" when originally made but sometimes can be in prints, molds of statutes etc, etc...when popular. It would be hard for a artist to paint the same painting exactly the same twice including brush strokes etc...but others after the original can be replicated or reproduced if not exactly at least close facsimiles or copied by print, mold etc...

Cars (not being in the class of fine art), are, however, usually intended to be built in mass number one just like the last, exactly. If you want to use the literal definition of "replica" as you cite then every CSX after CSX 2000 and CSX 3000 are also "replicas". Clearly this is not accurate is it? Nor do we commonly understand them or accept them as replicas do we?

Lets get REAL. We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

[4pipes]

Will this crap EVER go away! It's ruining this site for me. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

No word games involved here Evan. When people ask if it's real they are not asking if it's a Shelby or Kirkham and wouldn't know the difference. They are asking if its an original and the correct answer for you is the same as all the other replicas.

I'm not trying to antagonize you here. I have been asked the exact question you quoted "is this a REAL one or a fake" dozens and dozens of times and what they wanted to know was if the car was an "ORIGINAL" as in built in the 60's or not.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original.

Let it be known that old Racer X actually has his own cerebelum and does not need to converse with those he calls his friends prior to making any statements about CSX4000 automobiles. I have personally seen him walk and talk on his own without help from his friends, he IS capable of independent thought.

No need to think his buddies help him make decisions.... he actually functions like most normal human beans.

[computerworks]

(speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.

There is a world of difference in both those statements. And the second one takes nothing away from an exceptional example of the genre.

Which one you use is dictated on just whose fantasy you are trying to fuel.

I love ya, but you can sure crap up a thread on a regular basis.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by computerworks

(speaking as just me )


I love ya, but you can sure crap up a thread on a regular basis.

I think this is the most eloquent explanation of how I feel about Evan.

Good Job, Ron!!!!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by computerworks

(speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.

There is a world of difference in both those statements. And the second one takes nothing away from an exceptional example of the genre.

Which one you use is dictated on just whose fantasy you are trying to fuel.

Perhaps we can discuss over tea at the next SAAC convention.

[Sal Gerace]

[quote=computerworks](speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.
QUOTE]
Ron, way too much explanation just for the "unsuspecting tourist". Getting into a lengly explanation with someone who obviously cannot tell an original from any other is just reason enough not to get too deep into an explanation. I would not mind teaching someone who is truely interested in Cobras. And can show that interest with something interesting in the conversation that tells me that they are an ehthusiast of at least Fords if nothing else. Interest in Cobras is not the motivation for the question. I think people see Cabras as kit cars and not real cars so it's a natural question for most.

[Dangerous Doug]

original = Cobra from the 60's

genuine = made by Shelby

replica = made by someone else other than Shelby, "looks like a Cobra"

real = this is where is seems to get sticky. If I had a CSX4000 and someone asked me, I'd tell them it was a real, genuine Shelby. If they pressed the issue (knowing more than the novice on the street) I'd admit that it's a CSX4000, not an original from the 1960's. No shame in that.

My car is not a real Cobra. No shame in that. I would never represent it as genuine/real/original Shelby. It is a replica of a car that, last I saw, was selling for $2.1M. I can't afford that. My car is fiberglass, but when done will be outside the price range of just about anyone that asks me if it's real. If they're disappointed, Oh, well! I still like it, and am thrilled that I own it.

Maybe we should all just get over ourselves and enjoy our Cobras?

[Rickd]

Computerworks. Agreed, why can't the simple truthfull answer be told. "Shelby started to build them again in the late 90's, offering both fibreglass and aluminum bodies, and this is one of his continuation series cars". "The limited originals that were made are commanding $400,000 - $8 million dollars or more". This would be not only truthfull and more accurate, but also informative to the "unsuspecting novice".

[1985 CCX]

I can't wait to sit down in August 08 and hash this one out over a few cocktails. This is great stuff.....

[Naumoff]

My new favorite decal on my car.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by 1985 CCX

I can't wait to sit down in August 08 and hash this one out over a few cocktails. This is great stuff.....

[289ACE]

Since I own a '56 ace that was "Cobraized" in the early '60s I guess I own a replica since it was not built by Shelby and is not an original Cobra. That may make my car the first replica built and maybe I should be collecting the replica royalties.

[Excaliber]

Acrually I kind of like 'reproduction', at the same time I wouldn't call a modern Shelby a replica.

Ahhh, but alas, even the term 'reproduction' can be a minefield. There is just no clear cut way to make a statement about the new C*bras. It all depends on where and when the question is being asked. At a stop light? At a car show? Even my answer on my replica (of an AC COB ) will depend on the who, where and when.