Shelby vs SAAC

[REAL 1]

Yeah, I do have a problem with my car being called a "replica". Its not a replica of a Cobra. It is a genuine Cobra. We all know what the intended infrerence/implication is by you and others referring the the Continuation series as a "reproduction" or "replica". Your use the word "replica" and "reproduction" is intended to imply it is not a real cobra but fake. Period. You know this.

I think the fair use of the word "replica" should be used for reference to all "non Shelby Cobra" look alikes. SAAC seems to agree with me and so does Team Shelby. This is all I've been saying for years and have been maligned for doing so. And..just so you know I have never knocked "replicas". I have high regard for the quality of cars such as ERA, Spf and others and admire them.

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original. Thats exactly what it is. This is not an "elitist" thing at all despite the allegations by you and others. Not at all. Such allegations were simply not fair or true.

Maybe if you were nice I might have even let you take 4206 on the back straight at Watkins Glenn or take her for a spin since you live close by but you haven't been very nice soooo ...forget it!

[Chaplin]

rep·li·ca /ˈrɛplɪkə/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rep-li-kuh] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. a copy or reproduction of a work of art produced by the maker of the original or under his or her supervision.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/replica

Seems to me that Series 4000 are the only true replicas.

Everything else is just a fakeydo!

But Continuation Series is an acceptable description as well.

[REAL 1]

Thank you Chaplin, but we've been down the "dictionary" road before. Nice try though.

The "replica" definition as used in the dictionary is really directed at items in the fine arts, statutes, paintings etc... All those replicated after the original are replicas/reproductions if coming from the original maker. Fine art originals are usually intended to be one of a kind and are usually not intended to be replicated at time of original creatin or impossible to replicate "exactly" when originally made but sometimes can be in prints, molds of statutes etc, etc...when popular. It would be hard for a artist to paint the same painting exactly the same twice including brush strokes etc...but others after the original can be replicated or reproduced if not exactly at least close facsimiles or copied by print, mold etc...

Cars (not being in the class of fine art), are, however, usually intended to be built in mass number one just like the last, exactly. If you want to use the literal definition of "replica" as you cite then every CSX after CSX 2000 and CSX 3000 are also "replicas". Clearly this is not accurate is it? Nor do we commonly understand them or accept them as replicas do we?

Lets get REAL. We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

[4pipes]

Will this crap EVER go away! It's ruining this site for me. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[REAL 1]

Don't read it if you don't like it. Simple enough right?

Being that you only have 200 some posts I'll inform you this topic as been here long before you got here and will likely be here for a long time to come.

Clearly others consider worth discussing and it is a Cobra related issue.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

We all know what the common understanding and meaning is when people refer to something as a "replica". We all know they intend to say or ask "is this a REAL one or a fake." Lets not play word games. Lets be fair here.

Thank you.

No word games involved here Evan. When people ask if it's real they are not asking if it's a Shelby or Kirkham and wouldn't know the difference. They are asking if its an original and the correct answer for you is the same as all the other replicas.

I'm not trying to antagonize you here. I have been asked the exact question you quoted "is this a REAL one or a fake" dozens and dozens of times and what they wanted to know was if the car was an "ORIGINAL" as in built in the 60's or not.

[REAL 1]

Fair enough. I absolutely agree that when most people ask is it real they want to know if it is an original. But I don't agree with you that my answer should be the same as "other replicas owners" because the Shelby is not a replica of a Cobra it is a Cobra. Not a hard concept here. I'm sure replica owners would like my answer to be the same as theirs but it aint.

When I'm asked if my car is REAL, my answer and the fair answer is, "Yes it is, its a new Continuation series Cobra from Shelby American". Thats what I routinely say and never has anyone walked away with the impression its a 60 year old orignal (at least I don't see how they could). The vast reaction and response has been acceptance as a REAL Cobra with the understanding its not an original.

Thats makes it pretty clear. No misrepresentations there. You don't have an issue with this do you? If you do you need to notify SAAC, Team Shelby and Amy to correct their statements. Start posting.

[Power Surge]

This is a perfect example of why this subject will never die... because there are more than one views on it.

I do agree that there are those here that purposely get these debates going, simply for entertainment. I also agree that there are those here that truely see new Shelby Cobras as just another replica. And then there are those here who feel the cars are legit Shelby Cobras. On top of that, you've got different WAYS of promoting, or arguing, each view.

Dispite people who want to say otherwise, new Shelby Cobras, are real Shelby Cobras. You can spin the terminology anyway you'd like to benefit your side of the debate, but that will only change the outcome in your own mind.

This has nothing to do with "originals" either. We're not talking about people passing new Cobras off as originals here, we're talking about discrediting new Shelby Cobras, and their place in the registry.

The fact is, Shelby sold Cobras. Shelby stopped selling Cobras. Shelby started selling Cobras again. Plain and simple. They are new, real, Shelby Cobras. Many auto makers stop making certain models of cars, and then start making them years later. Are they fakes? Are they reproductions? No. They are new cars made in a different period in time.

In one of these debates a while back, I asked any one of the CSX "discreditors" to walk up to Carroll and tell him to his face that his new Shelby Cobras are fake and not real Cobras. I'm still waiting on that one.

And for those of you who like to tag certain people here in manners based on their views or what kind of car they own, my views are not CSX-elitist. I felt this same way when I owned my FFR, and then again when I owned my KMP. I own a CSX because I wanted a CSX. I don't think my car is better than anyone else's. I don't think I am better than anyone else because I own a CSX.

[REAL 1]

Amen, brother, Amen.

[xlr8or]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Fair enough. I absolutely agree that when most people ask is it real they want to know if it is an original.

Good, glad you acknowledged that the intent of the question about "REAL" is whether it's an original car.

Originally Posted by REAL1

When I'm asked if my car is REAL, my answer and the fair answer is, "Yes it is, its a new Continuation series Cobra from Shelby American"

hmmmm.. Do you read what you type before you post it?

You can say it's not an elitist thing all you want but when you describe the "non-shelby" owners as "HAVE NOTS" you are proving thier point.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by REAL 1

Why is it so hard for you and your buddies just to refer to the CSX Continuation Series as a Continuation Series Cobra and accept it for what it is, a REAL Cobra but NOT an original.

Let it be known that old Racer X actually has his own cerebelum and does not need to converse with those he calls his friends prior to making any statements about CSX4000 automobiles. I have personally seen him walk and talk on his own without help from his friends, he IS capable of independent thought.

No need to think his buddies help him make decisions.... he actually functions like most normal human beans.

[computerworks]

(speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.

There is a world of difference in both those statements. And the second one takes nothing away from an exceptional example of the genre.

Which one you use is dictated on just whose fantasy you are trying to fuel.

I love ya, but you can sure crap up a thread on a regular basis.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by computerworks

(speaking as just me )


I love ya, but you can sure crap up a thread on a regular basis.

I think this is the most eloquent explanation of how I feel about Evan.

Good Job, Ron!!!!

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by computerworks

(speaking as just me )

Saying that a CSX4000 car is "a real Cobra" to an unsuspecting tourist in conversation is simply a boldface lie. We all know what they infer from that statement. Adding an asterisk-explanation about some rebirth 40 years later is just sort of back-pedaling.

Saying that "no, it is a new car, made by the same guy that made 'em in the 60's" is far more truthful.

There is a world of difference in both those statements. And the second one takes nothing away from an exceptional example of the genre.

Which one you use is dictated on just whose fantasy you are trying to fuel.

Perhaps we can discuss over tea at the next SAAC convention.

[Slither]

This past July, my car, CSX4266 was INVITED to attend the First Annual William K. Vanderbilt Jr. Concours D' Elegance in Newport, Rhode Island at the Newport Mansions. The event was put on by The Preservation Society of Newport County. Dan Gurney and Sir Sterling Moss were in attendance to receive lifetime achievment awards. We accepted the invitation and made the trip knowing that we would not be in a judged class, but a class for exhibition only. We were told that this was the first time that a 4000 series Shelby Cobra had appeared at an event of this magnitude and prestige. The officials parked us right next to Paul Andrews fine collection of Shelby Cobras. Obviously, he won the Domestic Post-War class because he was the only entrant. He deserved it, too! My point is even though the 4000 series Cobras are starting to be recognized at shows like this, they still will NEVER be able to compete with the 2000 and 3000 series cars. Neither will the 7000 and 8000 series cars either.

[RACER X #99]

Originally Posted by Slither

This past July, my car, CSX4266 was INVITED to attend the First Annual William K. Vanderbilt Jr. Concours D' Elegance in Newport, Rhode Island at the Newport Mansions. The event was put on by The Preservation Society of Newport County. Dan Gurney and Sir Sterling Moss were in attendance to receive lifetime achievment awards. We accepted the invitation and made the trip knowing that we would not be in a judged class, but a class for exhibition only. We were told that this was the first time that a 4000 series Shelby Cobra had appeared at an event of this magnitude and prestige. The officials parked us right next to Paul Andrews fine collection of Shelby Cobras. Obviously, he won the Domestic Post-War class because he was the only entrant. He deserved it, too! My point is even though the 4000 series Cobras are starting to be recognized at shows like this, they still will NEVER be able to compete with the 2000 and 3000 series cars. Neither will the 7000 and 8000 series cars either.

That's real dedication, tow across the entire country for a car show. I wonder why they didn't invite Evan?

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

I wonder why they didn't invite Evan?

I was the rivets that excluded him.

[John McMahon]

Originally Posted by RACER X #99

That's real dedication, tow across the entire country for a car show. I wonder why they didn't invite Evan?

What am I missing here?

Slither comes a couple of thousand miles with an invite to this show and Evan is only 6 hours or so with a similar CSX4000 and he ain't invited?????

That's just plain wrong.

[computerworks]

Originally Posted by Slither

This past July, my car, CSX4266 was INVITED to attend the First Annual William K. Vanderbilt Jr. Concours D' Elegance in Newport, Rhode Island at the Newport Mansions.

Originally Posted by Slither

We were told that this was the first time that a 4000 series Shelby Cobra had appeared

[Slither]

Ron, you didn't finish the quote! ... at an event of this magnatude and prestige.