Continuation CSX a "Kit car"?

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

CSX4750 (which is currently 4855) was the first "4700 series" car, and was the first "roller" 4000 car, built by CAV.

Pardon dumb question:

How does a car start out as 4750 and become 4855 at a later time??

Were/are there more than one car(s) like that??

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Pardon dumb question:

How does a car start out as 4750 and become 4855 at a later time??

Were/are there more than one car(s) like that??

Not a dumb question, I was dumbfounded at first as well.

When I had 4819 on order, and guys like Jdog and such (with 4795) still hadn't gotten their cars, CSX 4855 popped up for sale on ebay. I contacted the seller and asked how that could be possible, that a car over 50 numbers ahead of what had been delivered, could have been available. The response was that it was 4750, re-VINed. The reason? I have no idea. I verified it with a few people I knew, and the current owner posts on the Shelby forums.

I still have no idea why it was re-VINed. My guess would be that maybe it was stripped down and rebuilt, as the first bunch of CAV cars had some serious quality issues.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Not a dumb question, I was dumbfounded at first as well.

When I had 4819 on order, and guys like Jdog and such (with 4795) still hadn't gotten their cars, CSX 4855 popped up for sale on ebay. I contacted the seller and asked how that could be possible, that a car over 50 numbers ahead of what had been delivered, could have been available. The response was that it was 4750, re-VINed. The reason? I have no idea. I verified it with a few people I knew, and the current owner posts on the Shelby forums.

I still have no idea why it was re-VINed. My guess would be that maybe it was stripped down and rebuilt, as the first bunch of CAV cars had some serious quality issues.

-So that would mean it was stripped, rebuilt and VIN'd by the original mfg?? -and a new MSO issued? Never hear of that with OEM's huh?
Thanks for your logic Sal-it does make sense.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Not a dumb question, I was dumbfounded at first as well.

When I had 4819 on order, and guys like Jdog and such (with 4795) still hadn't gotten their cars, CSX 4855 popped up for sale on ebay. I contacted the seller and asked how that could be possible, that a car over 50 numbers ahead of what had been delivered, could have been available. The response was that it was 4750, re-VINed. The reason? I have no idea. I verified it with a few people I knew, and the current owner posts on the Shelby forums.

I still have no idea why it was re-VINed. My guess would be that maybe it was stripped down and rebuilt, as the first bunch of CAV cars had some serious quality issues.

I can't see how this would change the vin# unless the frame was trashed and had to be replaced and still this would be a waste of time to re-VIN the car.
The frame could just be stamped to the VIN of the original car because fraud was not the intent and you are the owner of the car. It was already titled as that car.
Maybe it was some legal thing but it doesn't make sense to me.

[RedCSX1]

Originally Posted by Power Surge

Not a dumb question, I was dumbfounded at first as well.

When I had 4819 on order, and guys like Jdog and such (with 4795) still hadn't gotten their cars, CSX 4855 popped up for sale on ebay. I contacted the seller and asked how that could be possible, that a car over 50 numbers ahead of what had been delivered, could have been available. The response was that it was 4750, re-VINed. The reason? I have no idea. I verified it with a few people I knew, and the current owner posts on the Shelby forums.

I still have no idea why it was re-VINed. My guess would be that maybe it was stripped down and rebuilt, as the first bunch of CAV cars had some serious quality issues.

As I stood looking at CSX5750 at the Las Vegas Shelby Operations with some key Shelby Manager/employees I was told that CAV did such a poor job building the car that they decided to start over with it. It then became a Las Vegas built car and not a South African built car. I do think they said they ended up replacing the frame.

[ROUSHAC]

This thread almost makes me wish that Evan would chime in. OK, maybe not.

[Excaliber]

Stentor, there are ways to accumulate the various parts and build one yourself, though rare.

If the 'real', 'Shelby' and 'continuation' terms aren't enough, what you got when a CSX is 'home built'?

[Stentor]

Originally Posted by Excaliber

Stentor, there are ways to accumulate the various parts and build one yourself, though rare.

If the 'real', 'Shelby' and 'continuation' terms aren't enough, what you got when a CSX is 'home built'?

Not doubting you, Ernie. Just curious--how does this work? And how would Shelby assign a CSX # in this type of situation (assuming that the CSX # would have to be on the frame that the person acquired)?

[RodKnock]

My apologies to everyone. The CSX # was 4250 that I looked at last year, not 4750. Sorry.

[Excaliber]

Seems to me Shelby has changed Vin's on a number of cars since the begining. I'm not making a judgement one way or the the other, just making a comment.

[mrmustang]

ANyone else notice the hit and run tactic of the original instigator of this thread. . Seems to me like Evan borrowed a friends AOL account and decided to come out and play after all.

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

ANyone else notice the hit and run tactic of the original instigator of this thread. . Seems to me like Evan borrowed a friends AOL account and decided to come out and play after all.

Yes but this does raise an interesting question.

I guess it would be state by state.
In MD we have salvage titles. This is issued when a car is totaled and then bought my someone. They use to not give you a title from the junkyard.
I bought a parts car 25 years ago and all I got was a bill of sale.
Now we have salvage titles.

Question 1; If you change the frame on your car(if your car has a frame) can the car retain the same title?

Question 2; What came first the chicken or the egg?

question 3; Was this discussed before?

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Question 1; If you change the frame on your car(if your car has a frame) can the car retain the same title?

If the frame is legally changed by a licensed body shop and under the direction of the insurance company, then yes, it can retain the same title. In my last case several years ago, a 2005 (4 months old, less than 1,000 miles on it) F350SD that was run over at a quarry by a larger vehicles. The insurance company spec'd a new full frame and cab be swapped in and it was.

Originally Posted by Naumoff

Question 2; What came first the chicken or the egg?

The egg came first, the chicken was a genetic mutant to whatever laid the egg in the first place and a new species was born/hatched.

Originally Posted by Naumoff

question 3; Was this discussed before?

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But does it really matter what they are called just as long as they are enjoyed by their respective owners?

[Naumoff]

Originally Posted by mrmustang

If the frame is legally changed by a licensed body shop and under the direction of the insurance company, then yes, it can retain the same title. In my last case several years ago, a 2005 (4 months old, less than 1,000 miles on it) F350SD that was run over at a quarry by a larger vehicles. The insurance company spec'd a new full frame and cab be swapped in and it was.



The egg came first, the chicken was a genetic mutant to whatever laid the egg in the first place and a new species was born/hatched.



over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

But does it really matter what they are called just as long as they are enjoyed by their respective owners?

I was talking about frame swaps.
I call mine a POS.
And I really don't care which one came first, just thought I'd throw that one in for good measure.

[Lowell W]

I don't see why it's a dumb word. It's a continuation of production. Shelby stopped production of the Cobra in 1968 and started again in 1996. What other word would you use to describe it?

"Resumption"

Or..."Resumption under fraudulent terms: ie outright lying about the origin of the chassis in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of a car he had turned his back on 30 years ago."

I'm sure there are other equally appropriate adjectives.

Lowell

[ANB]

MrMustang,

Not intended to be a "hit & run". Not able to get back to the computer until now. Many interesting views. My real reason for asking the question relates to language in a proposed bill in NJ that I have assisted on to get certain exemption status for the "replicas" and "kit cars". I noticed on a website for a new CSX Continuation Shelby Cobra that it was being sold as a 1965 Titled car. I spoke to an owner of a CSX Shelby this past week at a local cruise night that recently registered his car in NJ as a 1965 with no problem.

So, if they are "replicas" (real or not) how are some making it through the "system"? In some States, "Kit cars" and "replicas" are treated differently.

Just trying to do my part to help improve the titling and registration process in NJ.

Al

[mrmustang]

Originally Posted by ANB

MrMustang,

Not intended to be a "hit & run". Not able to get back to the computer until now. Many interesting views. My real reason for asking the question relates to language in a proposed bill in NJ that I have assisted on to get certain exemption status for the "replicas" and "kit cars". I noticed on a website for a new CSX Continuation Shelby Cobra that it was being sold as a 1965 Titled car. I spoke to an owner of a CSX Shelby this past week at a local cruise night that recently registered his car in NJ as a 1965 with no problem.

So, if they are "replicas" (real or not) how are some making it through the "system"? In some States, "Kit cars" and "replicas" are treated differently.

Just trying to do my part to help improve the titling and registration process in NJ.

Al

In regards to the titling of any cobra (replica, continuation etc) that was not originally built in the 60's, NJ is culling their records as we speak and knows the difference between serial number series and what they are and when they were built. If SAI chooses to issue you a MSO that says 1965, yet all of your documentation states it was built in 2008, then the state views it as a 2008 special construction vehicle and will title it as such. Anything else is a fallacy that if you check closely, could get you in a bit of hot water for falsifying government documentation (IE: fraud or title fraud is what NJ considers it), which could lead to your car being impounded, and you heavily fined. If you bring a car in to state that is already legally titled as a 1965 "whatever". NJ takes those on face value and will issue you a title "like in kind" and it will be viewed as a 1965 "whatever"......Of course then trying to get Historic plates is where you may run in to problems....Collector registration might be the way to go in that case.......


Bill S.

PS: Spent 11 years working with the NJDMV and the NJRC (New Jersey Replica Club) on such clarifications.....With the closing down of the NJRC and several of it's more active participants no longer interacting with the NJDMV, things have gotten muddied up in the political arena.........

[ANB]

Bill,

Thanks for the feedback. There was a Bill introduced in Assembly several weeks ago and a similar one to be introduced in the Senate this coming week. Both proposed Bills were reviewed by SEMA and suggested changes were made. If you go to the ffcobra forum you can see email threads and a copy of the proposed Bill.

Hopefully there is alot of interest and support from the NJ enthusiasts whether they are already registered or not. All can support the proposed Bills by reaching out to their legislators.

Al

[Jamo]

Originally Posted by ANB

MrMustang,

Not intended to be a "hit & run". Not able to get back to the computer until now. Many interesting views. My real reason for asking the question relates to language in a proposed bill in NJ that I have assisted on to get certain exemption status for the "replicas" and "kit cars". I noticed on a website for a new CSX Continuation Shelby Cobra that it was being sold as a 1965 Titled car. I spoke to an owner of a CSX Shelby this past week at a local cruise night that recently registered his car in NJ as a 1965 with no problem.

So, if they are "replicas" (real or not) how are some making it through the "system"? In some States, "Kit cars" and "replicas" are treated differently.

Just trying to do my part to help improve the titling and registration process in NJ.

Al

We have a Registration Forum as well as a search function. If you need help in understanding how to find or use them, just let us know.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by Lowell W

"Resumption"

Or..."Resumption under fraudulent terms: ie outright lying about the origin of the chassis in an attempt to cash in on the popularity of a car he had turned his back on 30 years ago."

I'm sure there are other equally appropriate adjectives.

Lowell

What you are talking about, are different cars. Those are "completion" cars. Cars claimed to have been slated for build in the 60s, and finished in the early 90s using original parts.

It would have all been legit if Shelby hadn't made the whole thing up, and created those cars by contracting McCluskey to built them from sctratch.