ummm.. you're supposed to wash the car first. THEN use the clay bar WITH show shine which includes SILICONE which LUBRICATES the surface so you don't F@#K it up. Good grief.
Your point being?
It's clay. Clay picks up imbedded ****. Unless you're kneeding it every square inch or two, eventually you're goign to get a piece of **** in it that will leave a micro-marr or two behind until you kneed it into the clay.
I don't care how much lube you use, eventually you will, unless your surface is pretty much clean to start with, pick up something in it which will abbrade against the surface.
And it's a really moot point if your clearcoat is relatively soft - you'll get micro-marring all over the vehicle from just the teeniest bit of dirt getting trapped in the clay.
Though I did change and kneed the clay after wiping every few inches I had sprayed, I am just not that worried about a few imperfections in the paint that people have to look hard to see. Besides I now no longer have any cars except my daily driver and it hasn't even been washed in 3 years.
I just never did strive for the perfection that the show car people did. As long as mine looked nice, I was happy. I knew that the next trip out and racing around the track and in the sand and dirt it would be a mess again..
I don't care how much lube you use, eventually you will, unless your surface is pretty much clean to start with, pick up something in it which will abbrade against the surface.
My point being is the one you just made. Wash the car and start with a clean surface. I don't think people who haven't washed or waxed their car in years are the same ones going out and buying clay bars. My car has never seen a conventional wash. Just show shine between clay bar and waxes once a year. Other than the usual road patina, in 7 years and 65K miles, the paint is perfect.
My point being is the one you just made. Wash the car and start with a clean surface. I don't think people who haven't washed or waxed their car in years are the same ones going out and buying clay bars. My car has never seen a conventional wash. Just show shine between clay bar and waxes once a year. Other than the usual road patina, in 7 years and 65K miles, the paint is perfect.
But no wash will remove all the imbedded atmospheric deposits (dirt yes, but not the imbedded stuff). Hence why you can store you car in a garage, never move it for a year, but wash and clay it a year later and the clay bar will be dirty. Not super dirty like a daily driver, but you're still going to pick up some crap because unless it's in a bubble, contaminents that you can't just wash off will adhere overtime.
I'm sure your paint is in good shape, but I'd be willing to bet $100 if you bring it out into direct sunlight (or use a tool like a sun gun) I can find micro-marring on the paint (such as RIDs and swirls). From your statement I'd be willing to also bet that your car is a lighter color, like a white/silver/yellow/light blue and not a darker on like red/black/dark blue)
But no wash will remove all the imbedded atmospheric deposits (dirt yes, but not the imbedded stuff). Hence why you can store you car in a garage, never move it for a year, but wash and clay it a year later and the clay bar will be dirty. Not super dirty like a daily driver, but you're still going to pick up some crap because unless it's in a bubble, contaminents that you can't just wash off will adhere overtime.
I'm sure your paint is in good shape, but I'd be willing to bet $100 if you bring it out into direct sunlight (or use a tool like a sun gun) I can find micro-marring on the paint (such as RIDs and swirls). From your statement I'd be willing to also bet that your car is a lighter color, like a white/silver/yellow/light blue and not a darker on like red/black/dark blue)
OMG.. you're RIGHT! I had a guy in a Corvette that pulled along side my car with one of those "sun guns" and said he'd seen some "micro-marring" on several places on my car!
You know darn well my car is lighter color... duh? Not trying to be argumentative but, why would all the top wax manufacturers and detailers use something that would make your finish look worse than it was? If you have "micro-marring" of the paint from a clay bar or anything else (minimized by use of lube), these are easily filled in with a proper wax afterward. The whole idea is to completely remove embedded contaminants which have a long term negative effect on paint vs micro-marring which is only a negligible visual imperfection. Are you saying this is all marketing hype and we shouldn't use clay bars or are you saying the same thing as me, that you need to do it properly. Here's a guy doing a whole fender on a M6 without folding the clay. I'd fold the clay four times in the same space but note the amount of lube.
Not trying to be argumentative but, why would all the top wax manufacturers and detailers use something that would make your finish look worse than it was?
I never said clay baring will make it look worst always - I said it isn't going to improve RIDs or scratches and will probably induce more along the way, depending on how soft the clear is. (e.g., you use a claybar on a daily driven black g35 coupe and the paint, under proper lighting, will look like absolute hell after the claybar, but do the same thing on a corvette, and itwon't be anywhere near as noticeable)
Anyways, to answer your question - simple - because 99% of detailers follow a claybar with a compound and/or polish to remove the RIDs, scratches, and micro-mars. Only time somebody would jump from clay to wax would be if it were fairly new paint (or recently detailed paint), but I'm not certain who would do that since you reall yonly need to clay once every year or two, depending on use.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TButtrick
If you have "micro-marring" of the paint from a clay bar or anything else (minimized by use of lube), these are easily filled in with a proper wax afterward.
Filling in swirls and scratches is just half-assed detailing. Proper compound and/or polish to remove them permanently, not just keep covering them up over and over and over. (and then proper care from that point forward to minimize them when they come back)
Quote:
Originally Posted by TButtrick
Are you saying this is all marketing hype and we shouldn't use clay bars or are you saying the same thing as me, that you need to do it properly.
I'm saying that you need to do it properly, but also that there's no way to have 60k miles on your paint with just washes, clay, and wax, and not have any RIDs, or micro-marring (I'm purposely not writting scratches here because it's apparent that most people seem to think scratches mean stuff like key marks down to the primer) .... even Paul Dalton can't accomplish that feat.
The problem though is people become deconditioned as to what 'acceptable' paint condition is, because most believe that swirls, RIDs, and micro-marring are completely unavoidable and just hte paint aging.
For example, this would be considered acceptable to most people. Yellow corvette, direct sunlight. Hurts to look at with all the RIDs (atleast to me; as I said, most would probably just think the paint is aged)
Hybrid Mode
