Cobra roll bar safety

[Double Venom]

patrickt,

You know I have an opinion IF you have ONE 3 POINT then you had better have a screw in/on gas cap under that LeMans cap! Not knocking Superformance since they were already mentioned concerning a roll-over, they just happened to be involved in a extreme-critical roll over at Run N Gun years ago. "DV" was right behind, getting tready to pass when the SF rolled. It did what all Cobras do with a 3-point, the left side of the car (with the roll bar) held up the left side of the car, keeping the driver uninjured, but the car naturally pivoted on the top of the bar, forcing the right rear of the car into the payment--tearing up the LeMans cap allowing fuel to pour out and instantly catch fire.

Ron Rosen (Superformance) asked me what we had done to prevent that type of accident in the "DV's"? When DV finally got off the track I showed Ron how we adapted the filler tube to take an OEM gas cap. Since it is mounted below the neck of the LeMans cap, you would have to literally grind the entire cap down before it would reach the OEM gas cap.

Within a month (?) all SF's that I know of, now came with the modification!

4-Point vs. two 3-points? Hmm, Id have to see a full -in slow motion- video of both types in a roll over and then compare damages. Since "We" don't have a third person in our cars () I really can't see the benefit of one 4-point vs. two 3-pointers.

[RON N BKFLD]

CSX4000..........click photo........Ron

[N2VENOM]

Double Venom makes a great point! If you survive a roll over, you then need to be concerned with fire. Once again, I think having a gas cap should be a minimum requirement on all cobras. Until we speak out about some of the problems or designs incorporated in the currant line of cars, manufactures have no reason to change. I had the Kirkhams install a second roll bar (KMP500) because I run in track events about every month. I now have a concern about gas leaking if I ever flipped it.

[RodKnock]

Originally Posted by N2VENOM

Double Venom makes a great point! If you survive a roll over, you then need to be concerned with fire. Once again, I think having a gas cap should be a minimum requirement on all cobras. Until we speak out about some of the problems or designs incorporated in the currant line of cars, manufactures have no reason to change. I had the Kirkhams install a second roll bar (KMP500) because I run in track events about every month. I now have a concern about gas leaking if I ever flipped it.

I had a real "purty" gas cap installed underneath gas lid last Spring. I want to run some track events in the future and I had thought that it was a requirement. 4pipes gave me the great idea.

[scottj]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Does anyone have an opinon on whether dual roll bars are structurally superior, or inferior, to one full-width roll bar?

Deformation is nearly equal from a 45 degree impact with the slight advantage going to the full width bar.

Add a bar from a leg attachment point to the opposite, upper corner (per SCCA requirment) and the full width bar improves dramatically.

[Double Venom]

Scottj,
Pretty damned impressive.
Ron, that is a CSX Cobra? Do you know how the bottom of the legs were attached? That is the first Cobra bar I have seen deformed to the side. It appears it took a hard hit on the right rear -"T" hit? Or possibly an out of control slide/spin? The frame appears to be out (moved right) at least 3 1/2"s!!!

DV

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by scottj

Deformation is nearly equal from a 45 degree impact with the slight advantage going to the full width bar.

Add a bar from a leg attachment point to the opposite, upper corner (per SCCA requirment) and the full width bar improves dramatically.

Now that is a damn good answer.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by RodKnock

I had a real "purty" gas cap installed underneath gas lid last Spring. I want to run some track events in the future and I had thought that it was a requirement. 4pipes gave me the great idea.

Wait a minute, your gas cap did not look like this originally?

[Power Surge]

ALL of my rollbars and a few others meet or exceed anything that SCCA, or NHRA requires.

As a former drag chassis/roll cage builder, I can tell you that no traditional "Cobra" shaped roll bar would EVER pass NHRA tech, regardless of what it's made of. The only way you'd get away with it is maybe on a "nostagia night" or at a track that isn't strict on rules.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by Double Venom

When DV finally got off the track I showed Ron how we adapted the filler tube to take an OEM gas cap. Since it is mounted below the neck of the LeMans cap, you would have to literally grind the entire cap down before it would reach the OEM gas cap.

And yet ANOTHER feature of the fine Hurricane car, the hidden OEM style gas cap.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

And yet ANOTHER feature of the fine Hurricane car, the hidden OEM style gas cap.

Man, that seems like such an obvious safety feature -- you do know that some guys jam a tennis ball in there instead.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Man, that seems like such an obvious safety feature -- you do know that some guys jam a tennis ball in there instead.

Probably the same guys that lit their farts with Bic lighters in college.

[patrickt]

You flip your Cobra and come scraping to a halt. You're trying to gain your senses and get out of your belts and out from under the car and you hear and smell gas pouring out of the cap and running by your 400 degree sidepipes -- some of it beginning to steam. That could be right out of a Wes Craven movie.

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by patrickt

That could be right out of a Wes Craven movie.

I was thinking Mad Max.

So two things we've figured out here....everyone needs a frame mounted rollbar and a fuel-tight gas cap under your LeMans lid. Hey, that's progress in a nation of 40 milllion uninsured.

[kobrabytes]

Hello...

Guys, when I built my Cobra I was under no misconceptions what I was getting. I have a 1965 death trap with the skin of a beer can on steroids. If I were worried about crash protection I would have bought an H1. At least that may survive a glancing blow by a semi in a Hummer.

After graduating from High School I placed my fathers Galaxy 500 in front of a city dump truck, which he obligingly his us. My passengers and I all walked away. I don't have any illusions about the outcome were I in the Cobra.

For may years I rode a bike. I also have a CJ5. Neither one would fair to much better in a side impact. Although the roll cage on the jeep might protect you in a roll.

Bottom line... Build it best you can, do everything right. Pray that your time isn't up whilst driving.

On the other hand, got to go someway...

[elmariachi]

Originally Posted by kobrabytes

On the other hand, got to go someway...

Yea, but I'm gonna work to avoid that "burning to death upside down." scenario.

[mickmate]

Excellent, got quite a few views and responses in less than a day. Most important there's people paying attention. The typical Cobra roll bar is what I was referring to not a cage built to comply with SCCA or NHRA specs. I'll get a few pics of failed tubing. Like the shock mounts I was just looking at if they have no support on thin walled seamed furniture tubing then they could sure use a sleeve to stop collapsing when you tighten the bolts. Even better replace it with some real tube and weld in some sleeves where bolts go. A grade 8 fastener doesn't do a thing passed through a hole in a flimsy tube. As far as the gas cap goes it's a good topic for another thread, use some rollover valve protection in the fill neck. Parts like that are standard fare on race cars and readily available.

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by elmariachi

Yea, but I'm gonna work to avoid that "burning to death upside down." scenario.

Hmmm, "mariachi flambé" -- you know, it has a ring to it.

[Power Surge]

Originally Posted by mickmate

Excellent, got quite a few views and responses in less than a day. Most important there's people paying attention. The typical Cobra roll bar is what I was referring to not a cage built to comply with SCCA or NHRA specs. I'll get a few pics of failed tubing. Like the shock mounts I was just looking at if they have no support on thin walled seamed furniture tubing then they could sure use a sleeve to stop collapsing when you tighten the bolts. Even better replace it with some real tube and weld in some sleeves where bolts go. A grade 8 fastener doesn't do a thing passed through a hole in a flimsy tube. As far as the gas cap goes it's a good topic for another thread, use some rollover valve protection in the fill neck. Parts like that are standard fare on race cars and readily available.

It seems like some brands put more effort into mounting it fake, than it would take to just tie it into the chassis.

[Krewton]

CobraEd
I'm having Bill Emerson at Emerson Motorsport build a rollbar for my CR2. It's a single 3.5" bar across both sides. I'll post on my picts.
Krewton