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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2008, 09:52 AM
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Default 427 engine Temperature.

OK, so again, i have a 427 centeroiler with solid lifters, 2-650cfm carbs. currently it has 370miles on it. I have a 160 degree thermostat. I have an aluminum rad ( same as Rosco)

What i am finding is that the engine temperature takes only a couple of blocks to get to 170 degrees. I have my fans running right from startup because they are manually controled. Now i only have 2 electric fans from finsihline on the front of the rad pushing air through. there is about 1.5 inches of space between the rad and fans.

So after about 2 miles i am at 190 degrees. Now going down the highway at 65 miles i stay at 190 degrees. But in a stop and go situation i am climbing to 230 degrees. Now i have never allowed it to go over that because i either head back to the nearest highway or stretch run or stop at the nearest
Tim Hortons for a coffee and wait for it to cool down. Last night after a 10 mile run i pulled into the garage at 230 degrees. Even the hood rod is hot when setting it in place. I left my fans on when i shut off the car and cooled down the water in the rad. I would start it up and bring down the temperature allowing the cooled water in the rad to enter the engine and replace the rad with hot water then shutting it off again. Kept doing it untill i got it back to 180. Took three rad fills.

I know this isn't right. Mind you it has been high ninties here in Ontario lately.
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:01 AM
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Are your fans turning in the right direction?
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:11 AM
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I do feel the breeze on the otherside of the rad (engine compartment).

Automan
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:13 AM
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Hello Automan,

The 427 likes to run better when it hot 190 degrees is where it is happy, above that and it is way too hot.

As mentioned above look to what direction your fans are blowing but, I would recommend a pusher and puller fan combination. I looked in your gallery but, could not see what pusher fans you are using. If you are using the two small Aluminum units they are more decoration not real cooling functionality. I would look to mount a high efficiency puller behind the radiator i.e. Spal etc. that would pull the air through and give you the cooling needed when you are running slow in traffic.

Hope that helps,

TR
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:16 AM
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Change the thermostat to a 190 . A 160 is open too soon ...you might as well not have thermostat. John
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHANMADD View Post
Change the thermostat to a 190 . A 160 is open too soon ...you might as well not have thermostat. John
Maybe a silly question from a non professional, but wouldn't a 160 T/stat keep the watertemp cooler than a 190? It appears that the coolant would start flowing through the Radiator sooner, therefore lower operating temp?
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:58 AM
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The 160 opens at 160 and stays open. The purpose of the thermostat is to allow the coolant to sit in the radiator long enough to cool and then the thermo re-opens and lets the cooled coolant into the engine. When you have no thermo or a low open temp one the coolant flows all the time. it flows through the radiator so quickly that it does not cool down and returns to the engine still hot. Removing the thermostat is one of the most common "stupid" things to do. John
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Old 07-16-2008, 10:59 AM
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Hmmmm

Just looked in your gallery again and you are using the same units I have on my Shelby and had on my Unique, both with 427's. The thermostat should be 160 to allow the engine to come up to temp and then allow coolant to come in to bring the whole system up to 85 degrees C/185 degrees F range and keep it there. Except for spikes up when you go from hard running to a quick stop in traffic it should range like this Chart:

Degee C Degree F

75 167
76 168.8
77 170.6
78 172.4
79 174.2
80 176
81 177.8
82 179.6
83 181.4
84 183.2
85 185.0
86 186.8
87 188.6
88 190.4
89 192.2
90 194.0
91 195.8
92 197.6
93 199.4
94 201.2
95 203.0

The differences are for ambient temperature ranges, if it is 65 degrees out the engine will run cooler than if it is 90 degrees out our cars like us feel the temperature of the air we are running in.

Once you turn on the fans it should come back down to the 85-90 Degree C range, if it does not, as you have indicated, more airflow at lower speeds is needed. I included Centigrade and Fahreheit temps since I did not know what gauges you are using.

I know my engine is running right when both the water and oil temps both read 80-85 C. that is when the 160 degree thermostat is open all the time and things are working as designed.

One mans opinion,

TR

Last edited by Tony Ripepi; 07-16-2008 at 11:16 AM..
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:08 AM
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If your cooling system is right there should be no "spikes at all. The system should just stay at the correct temp. I run a 190 thermo,2 puller fans and 580 hp 406 cu and have never had any overheating problems even on the track.
The thermo is not designed to be open all the time...Sorry T.R. ,if it was there would not be one!!
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Old 07-16-2008, 11:45 AM
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Don't forget a properly sealed SHROUD around that puller fan. Helps to direct and focus the puller fan's action.
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Old 07-16-2008, 03:41 PM
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Trapped air in the system ??
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Old 07-16-2008, 04:57 PM
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My pusher fans dont do much except look good but when I turn on the puller it starts to cool my 427. You need a good puller fan.
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Old 07-16-2008, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBoy View Post
Trapped air in the system ??
Yup.
Had the same situation on a newly built engine, temps spiking, keeping the revs up to keep the temp. down, and a decent temp on the highway.
I found it was an air pocket which creates the radical temp ranges due to irregular or segmented flow. Try purging your system again.
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Old 07-16-2008, 06:08 PM
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Running cool on the highway and hot around town is a good indication of a fan issue. Those pusher fans are for show and cutting up bugs. Get a good puller fan behind the radiator.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:05 PM
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You have something going on other than an a 160 t-stat. Most likely air in the system. Drill an 1/8" hole in the flange of a 190 degree t-stat, This will allow some coolant to flow before the t-stat fully opens.

As was stated, FE's like to run around 190-200. I had a 160 on mine and it ran like $hit! Look into a SPAL slim line puller placed behind the radiator for really hot days and traffic.

Good luck.
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Old 07-16-2008, 07:07 PM
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Tony R. is right on the money as far as 'spikes' go. When your running a 160 T-Stat, which I also would recommend the 'spikes' WILL be dependant on ambient temps AND oil temps. I can live with some spikes based on ambient, I WANT the T-Stat to open early and stay open, which is exactly what a 160 will do. The 427's are not like a typical modern engine where you put in a 180-190 Stat and the temp 'stays right there' under all conditions. Aint gonna happen, it's NOT a perfect world and never will be with a 427.

Hood rod to hot? Thats exhaust/header heat your feeling, nothing to do with engine water temp. I can burn my hand on mine most any hot or cold day.

High engine temps are not always about needing more air flow. I can be cruising along at freeway speed and on a HOT day the temp WILL start to climb toward a 100c IF the oil temp also starts has gone up. Engine oil is a big factor in engine temp management, the more the better if your running hot. A oil cooler will help to maintain engine temps under extreme conditions, though it's only one part of the big picture.

How do you KNOW your heat gauge is accurate? Mine reads high by about 5 degrees, most all of them will vary some.

I use a 'catch can' for radiator overflow so water that IS pushed out of the system is returned to the system when the engine cools. Other wise eventually, you will have to add water to the radiator.

Heres the test I would run before buying more fans. Run it at highway speed which will certainly provide as much air as any combination of fans will. If it stays within reason, then perhaps, more fan's are called for in town and slow speed, but don't expect that to be the final solution by itself.

Heat management on a 427, tricky stuff, not an easy answer. Mine consistently runs right at 90 C, a little higher in traffic. I DON'T do parades, ever. In Hawaii we rarely have a big swing in temps, it's pretty much in the 80's year round. Dead of winter, dark of night, higher elevation, it has been known to drop into the mid 50's though. Brrrrrrrrrr.....

Last edited by Excaliber; 07-16-2008 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 07-16-2008, 08:51 PM
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need to make sure coolant system is burpped. there can be no air in your system
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:02 PM
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my car was also running hot mostly at slow speeds or at a light, backed off timing from 34 to 32 @ 4000 and set the idle/air needles a little fatter. no more problem. making it richer made a big difference
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:05 PM
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Good point native1, fuel mixture and timing, can't be over looked! Water wetter/water is also better than antifreeze/water mix or water alone.
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Old 07-16-2008, 09:15 PM
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Default Try this.

  • Check to see if you have a sticky thermostat 1st. Could be hanging. I put mine in a pot of water on the stove. Watch it open and close a few times; see if it sticks or opens and closes smoothly through each heat/cold test cycle.
  • Drain out all of the anti-freeze. Get it out of there in the summer time.
  • Raise the front end, burp the system / expansion tank or at intake.
  • Fill back up with pure water, while its UP in the air - front end up, remove cap on expansion tank.
  • Try it again, and see if anything changes.

    Dump out the hose water right after, and go get some distilled water and fill it up or just get some to begin with 1st try.

Next step,
  • Add water wetter.
  • Get a really good puller fan, as other's have suggested. Pushers are for looks.
  • Keep an eye on how many miles you have on it; still in break-in period.
  • Try it again, and see if anything changes.
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Last edited by decooney; 07-16-2008 at 09:21 PM..
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