Roush Engine problems

twobjshelbys · #1 (**permalink**) 12-01-2009, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

WHY?

Is it a dry sump? If not, what pan is on it? No wet sump FE (either drag race or road race) should require more than 7 1/2-8 1/2 qts regardless of what Roush recommends.

Your system is over filled and its pushing it's way out. To say nothing of the drag on the reciprocating assembly. That'll limit your response and RPM.

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

ERA Chas · #2 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

Then how much ground clearance with a 'deep racing pan' on it? Drag race pans are wrong for Cobras. And 11 qt oil changes are insane. You don't have an endurance race car which would be dry sump anyway.

Look I know you have bigger issues to resolve with Roush but you've been sold a lot of BS about needing stuff like this.

When you get it back, have sombody put the Canton RR pan (or Aviad, Armando) on it with 8 quarts for the whole system and it will work and fit perfectly. Change the pick up to match the pan.

Barry or Keith could have built two 600HP FE's for $40K. And if you insisted on FI maybe another $6K. A $40K engine will not comeback in resale value.

vettestr · #3 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 09:35 AM

Why the heck worry about 8 quarts or 12 quarts,? If Roush wanted 12 quarts I sure would not spend several hundred dollars to reduce the system volume.

Ron, I understand you are waiting for custom pistons to be manufactured if got the correct jist. What overbore or how many thou over the stock or original bore are they going? I know they are the guru's but seems a sleeve in the damaged cylinder would keep you from having to over bore the engine. What is the latest info on when you can come play? She sure has a sweet sound and a great rumble coming down the road.
Jeff C

DWRAT · #4 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vettestr

.

Ron, I understand you are waiting for custom pistons to be manufactured if got the correct jist. What overbore or how many thou over the stock or original bore are they going? I know they are the guru's but seems a sleeve in the damaged cylinder would keep you from having to over bore the engine.

Ron if they are boring your block and not just honing it I would have a big problem with that.
Do you really want a Roush 511 that has already been bored over?

Make them sleeve it or replace the block.
Imagine it the future if you ever need to just re-ring your motor you will have to custom order rings and heaven forbid you need to bore it some day you may need to buy a new block yourself because it has already been bored over.

RodKnock · #5 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DWRAT

Ron if they are boring your block and not just honing it I would have a big problem with that.
Do you really want a Roush 511 that has already been bored over?

Make them sleeve it or replace the block.
Imagine it the future if you ever need to just re-ring your motor you will have to custom order rings and heaven forbid you need to bore it some day you may need to buy a new block yourself because it has already been bored over.

Roush uses a CSX block for their 511's and can be safely bored to 527ci.

csx4910 · #6 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 03:20 PM

Jeff,
They are telling me it all depends on the pistons. They mentioned they expected about 2 weeks from last Friday. 1-2 weeks for the pistons to come in, put the motor back together and then on the dyno before it gets shipped back. I will believe it when I see the motor show up at Hot Rods by Dean.

Mikiec,
I hate to say this but I have to work Saturday and wont be there. I know given the club rules no one will miss me when I am not there. The only Saturday in the next month I could move my entire office out of the building so they can paint and put in new carpet is this weekend. On a brighter note, What weight are you down to now? I just dropped below 170 last week. Down 132 punds in 8 months!
Ron

csx4910 · #7 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 03:21 PM

If I am not mistaken, My 511 takes 12 quarts as well. Sandy, Is that was yours is taking?

twobjshelbys · #8 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Then how much ground clearance with a 'deep racing pan' on it? Drag race pans are wrong for Cobras. And 11 qt oil changes are insane. You don't have an endurance race car which would be dry sump anyway.

Look I know you have bigger issues to resolve with Roush but you've been sold a lot of BS about needing stuff like this.

When you get it back, have sombody put the Canton RR pan (or Aviad, Armando) on it with 8 quarts for the whole system and it will work and fit perfectly. Change the pick up to match the pan.

Barry or Keith could have built two 600HP FE's for $40K. And if you insisted on FI maybe another $6K. A $40K engine will not comeback in resale value.

Here's pictures of the pan. I didn't put it on, it was already on it when I got it. I just know this doesn't look like the picture of the pan on the 427IR at Roush's site, and when I changed the oil I put in the recommended 8 qts and it didn't even touch the bottom of the dipstick. It took almost 4 more quarts:

I also saw from this that the engine appears to be mounted slightly off level, I assume this was set up for a track. The drivers side side pipe is also rubbing on the body and now I'm starting to get a crack. Want to try to fix that soon.

ERA Chas · #9 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

Here's pictures of the pan. I didn't put it on, it was already on it when I got it. I just know this doesn't look like the picture of the pan on the 427IR at Roush's site, and when I changed the oil I put in the recommended 8 qts and it didn't even touch the bottom of the dipstick. It took almost 4 more quarts:

I also saw from this that the engine appears to be mounted slightly off level, I assume this was set up for a track. The drivers side side pipe is also rubbing on the body and now I'm starting to get a crack. Want to try to fix that soon.

Posting pix was definitely helpful. As the other 511 owners said, 8 qts +filter is max. You most likely have the wrong dipstick-get a longer one, drain your pan and refill with 8 qts then mark new stick correctly.

You apparently have the correct Canton pan-if it's 6 1/2" from the pan rail to the bottom, it's the same as mine:

If it is a deeper model, still run 8+ filter oil level as the other owners do. I run 6800 RPM and that is plenty safe for mine and yours. Increased displacement does not demand more oil.

Do you have a windage tray? You can tell by looking at the gasket mating surface-there would be two gaskets with a thin steel tray edge between. It's supposed to keep the oil off the crank.

If the motor is cocked to one side, remove the mount nuts and loosen or remove the trans mount nuts too. Then carefully lift the block by each cylinder head front surface and put a level on the EFI flange. Only lift the motor the bare minimum to get it to level. You MUST watch the clutch linkage and shifter while doing this. That's why your pipes are banging the cutout. I realize you bought it this way but the car was poorly assembled. And you were given the wrong info about the oil level.

Also; not sure but your lower rad hose looks like it's been mutilated or burned from the photo. Best to check that.

Best luck.

patrickt · #10 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Also; not sure but your lower rad hose looks like it's been mutilated or burned from the photo. Best to check that.

If you blow the picture up, it looks like two hose clamps and a tube, maybe to hold a thermostatic switch for the fan sticking out on the other side of the hose.

Spoooky · #11 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 08:28 PM

Mine holds 8 quarts in the pan, 9 quarts with the filter. Not including what is in the lines or the oil cooler.

RedCSX1 · #12 (**permalink**) 12-09-2009, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

I also saw from this that the engine appears to be mounted slightly off level, I assume this was set up for a track. The drivers side side pipe is also rubbing on the body and now I'm starting to get a crack. Want to try to fix that soon.

Check your motor mounts they may have loosened up. Put a level across the motor. Valve cover to valve cover to check to see if its level. if its not it needs to be.

ERA Chas · #13 (**permalink**) 12-09-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedCSX1

Check your motor mounts they may have loosened up. Put a level across the motor. Valve cover to valve cover to check to see if its level. if its not it needs to be.

From my post #50 on page 4:

"If the motor is cocked to one side, remove the mount nuts and loosen or remove the trans mount nuts too. Then carefully lift the block by each cylinder head front surface and put a level on the EFI flange. Only lift the motor the bare minimum to get it to level. You MUST watch the clutch linkage and shifter while doing this. That's why your pipes are banging the cutout. I realize you bought it this way but the car was poorly assembled. And you were given the wrong info about the oil level."

Got the Bug · #14 (**permalink**) 12-02-2009, 07:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twobjshelbys

It looks like the pan was replaced with a deep (racing) pan.

This is testing the few brain cells that I have left...but I recall that you posted a picture of your car on a lift at some point. I remember commenting that visually, the pan on your car looked like the same same powder coated pan that Roush engines ship with. You may want to measure/compare the dimensions of your pan to a standard Roush pan.