Finally decided on a gun

[lovehamr]

No Ma Deuce in the living room Buzz. Its a Browning 1919 .30cal. The big M2 is a scaled up version of it. I kind of dig the feng shui factor though.

Steve

[CCX 33239]

Danr55
Senior Club Cobra Member


Join Date: May 2007
Location: Mesa, AZ
Cobra Make, Engine: Contemporary Classic, 428 FE CCX 3069
Posts: 1,962

Not Ranked


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strange comment for a guy from the land of the militia, Bob. I learned to play with GI Joe toys when I was about 12. Sharpened those skills when I was 18 and I still enjoy "playing" with those toys. Don't know why your panties are in a bunch, but perhaps you'd be happier living somewhere else where GI Joes aren't available? You can always defend your personal freedom with a typewriter. Rest assured of one thing, as long as you live in America, there are lots of men and women who will use thier GI Joe toys and fight to the death, if necessary, to defend your right to dissent and to keep your pissy, juvenile attitude.

Danr55....

I'll try to remove my "wedgie".

I didn't think the my comment was strange at all. It was in refererence to this being a Cobra (read cars)forum.....not a "Guns and Ammo" magazine. Further, not everyone in Idaho is not some kind of "militia/neo-nazi", white supremicist, commie behind every bush, nutcase .....that's just as ridiculous as assuming everyone in AZ just snuck across the border last night!

As to you're comment about my "pissy, juvenile attitude", I can only attribute that to... "gunslinger vs. non-gunslinger" views. I kind of find the "gun" thing falls in the category of "guns and pickup trucks". The theory being: that there exists an inverse relationship between the height of one's truck (or number of guns) and the size of their Johnson. (kind of a male compensation thing)

Futher, I must admit, I never played with G.I. Joe "toys" when I was a kid (they didn't exist yet). Instead, I just served with the "real G,I. Joes" .....the one's that lose real blood and real body parts (U.S. Army, 8th Div Arty, 1965-68).

Bob

P.S. Glad to see you have a CCX FE.....hard to beat!
















PS. Glad to see you have a FE CCX!

Bob

[FatBoy]

This is an interesting thread.

Living in the UK, I've never had the opportunity to "play" around with these types of firearms and handguns in particular are a big no no.

I'm interested in the argument that these weapons are for personal protection. Is it a common occurrence for American citizens to have to defend themselves with such force? This is a genuine inquiry, so please don't jump down my throat.

I sort of understand the excitement of firing high performance weapons, but I struggle to believe that these types of weapons are practical self defence tools. Surely they're just too big and cumbersome and therefore, inconvenient...aren't they? You can't exactly lock in in your bedside dresser.

My personal preference would be for one of these:



Not for protection, but for general sporting use.

Happy Christmas.

Paul

[dave from mesa]

Bob
First, Thank you for you're service.
I guess according to you the Lounge should be gone also (not Cobra or car related).
49 posts and at least 2 are complaining about what we do here in AZ. WOW!
You don't have to agree with us but complaining won't win you any friends.

Fatboy
Guess I missed the part about an argument that these weapons are for personal protection so other than "the excitement of firing high performance weapons" you're post has no basis.

[FatBoy]

There was a reference earlier in the thread about personal protection and it was to that I was referring.

[mikiec]

Hey CCX33239

Yes, this is a cobra forum... But, I suggest you read through all 9 years of Arizona Cobra threads to see we are not just about Cobras. We, as a group are a very diverse and close family. Therefore, our conversations often stray from the cobra nation. We enjoy these conversations here in print and in person.

So sit back with your popcorn and enjoy the ride. But remember first and foremost this is a place for our group.

Mike

[dave from mesa]

Originally Posted by FatBoy

There was a reference earlier in the thread about personal protection and it was to that I was referring.

If you are referring to Y-NOTS post, that my friend is called AMERICAN humor.

[lovehamr]

Hi Fatboy, I'll try to clarify some. Could these guns be used for self defense? Yes they could, but that isn't the reason that they're going shooting with them. They're going shooting just because they enjoy it and that is what they want to do. Personally I like your choice in self defense weaponry, I'd rather a pump action though . But you do realize that your SG is larger and more unwieldy than the Sig rifle which started the discussion correct? Anyway; you asked if weapons got used for self defence here in the U.S. The answer is yes they do. "Each year in the U.S. gun owners use firearms for protection as frequently as 2.5 million times." You can search and find individual stories here: http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/

Of course some in other countries will consider this just silly at best and down right dangerous at worst. But here in the U.S. many of us are trying our best to make sure that a case like that of Tony Martin of Emneth, Norfolk, England never happens here. You can look it up if you are not already familiar with it or you can read about it here: http://www.allsafedefense.com/Articl...in-England.htm And though we seem to be following you guys down the road to socialized medicine, I think the right to self defense will be a bit harder to take away from us. Hope that answered your questions.

Steve
P.S. Hope my AZ brothers didn't mind my soapbox to much!

[FatBoy]

No Dave, not that one. I recognised that for for what it was.

There have been a couple of comments, but the one from Danr55 was the main one.
As I said, it was a genuine enquiry and was in no way intended to be inflamatory or antagonistic. I'm merely a bystander in the guns discussion because we are extremely limited on what we can legally own here in the UK.

[FatBoy]

Hi Steve (lovehamr),
Thank you for the information.
You misunderstood my comment about the Purdy. I did say that it would be my choice for sporting use and not for protection.

I'm very familiar with the Tony Martin case, but the link that you kindly provided gives a somewhat alarmist perspective on the course of events. There was much more to it than someone simply shooting an intruder. Mr Martin had been plagued by crooks, mainly gypsies, breaking into his property and unfortunately, the police failed in their response. However, Mr Martin's mistake was to shoot one of his assailants in the back as they ran away.
Mr Martin actually spent very little time in custody and has been free for some considerable time now.
There has been another case recently of a home owner chasing a burglar down the street with a cricket bat (very British ) and beating seven shades of sh1t out of him when he caught up. He has now been sent to prison for using "undue force".

2½ million cases of firearms being used in self defence is, to me, an alarming figure.

I suspect the "correct" situation is somewhere between the two extremes and I strongly suspect that we will start to see new measures here that allows a victim more freedom to use force to defend themselves and their family and protect their property.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that making guns more readily available though would cause more problems here than it would solve.

Paul

[Danr55]

Allow me to respond in all seriousness to both Fatboy and CCX...First let me apologize for the sarcasm in my previous post. It was juvenile. CCX allow me, as Dave did, to thank you for your service. Many of us on the AZ board also served, so I understand your pride in what you've done. While I don't recall crossing with anyone from the 8th division while in country, I'm sure that was because they were in the south while I was in the Central Highlands and I Corp. So, for your service, Thanks.. as to all who served. As for the propriety of discussing weapons or firearms or any topic on this forum, I believe that is best left to the administrators to determine. I guess it's kind of like a TV show that you don't like. You just change the channel. I, personally, find any topic that is related to the freedoms we enjoy in this country appropriate in any forum. Any forum that does not believe that to be appropriate, does not need me as a member. The Second Amendment, like the entire Bill of Rights, is a jewel in the crown of American Freedom. It provides us with protection not only from persons who would do us harm, but from governments both foreign and domestic who would infringe on those rights that so many of us have offered up our lives to defend. So I offer this advice in all seriousness, if you find the discussion of firearms offensive, then I suggest you change the channel and continue to live your life as you see fit and permit us the same freedom. We offer no personal offense nor accept any personal affront.

Fatboy, If you read what I've written above, you will see what "protection" we choose to exercise in this country. We do not wish to accept the subjegation that has been levied on so many persons in so many other countries. Call it the "cowboy spirit" if you will or any other name that catagorizes or catalogues it for you. I choose to call it American Pride. We are different from the citizens of other countries and I, for one, take great joy in that difference. I have firearms to protect me from any one who would do me or my loved ones or friends harm. Be it individual, group, or government. I pray that I will never take up arms out of fear or anger again, but if needs be, then so be it. As for your choice of weapons, I had a sargent who used to tell me that if I didn't shoot 'til I saw the whites of their eyes, I waited too damned long. So I choose something other than a shotgun for personal defense. As for sporting arms, it's difficult to shoot an elk at 250 yards with a shotgun.. It's also difficult to swing a shotgun effectively in the confines of a room. So unless I'm hunting birds or shooting clays, I'll choose a different tool. Then to each his own.

I hope what I've written here explains a bit more about how I feel and what I believe. I require no one to agree with me but only ask them to allow me the same freedom of choice and belief that I permit them. No sarcasm and no affront to anyone.

Thanks for listening.

[mikiec]

Hey, Ratboy...

Let us know when you get your new toy.

Mike

[dave from mesa]

What Mikie said and post pics.

Fatboy
My apologies if I took you're post wrong.
Mighty fine shotgun you have there.

[Zoom This]

Hmmm....Seattle PD would love to have your guns. By the way, take the gun talk to the Guns and Ammo web site. Save this site for what it was designed for.

[RedSnake351]

Originally Posted by Zoom This

Hmmm....Seattle PD would love to have your guns. By the way, take the gun talk to the Guns and Ammo web site. Save this site for what it was designed for.

SHHHHH guys, a Washington Liberal is trying to stop your gun talk on our Arizona site! Funny how people not only want to take your 2nd amendment rights but now they're after the 1st also!

Why do they read this stuff if they're not interested?

[dave from mesa]

Dang!
Not another one.
Is there something about the AZ forum that all of THOSE ppl are attracted to?
Jealousy maybe?

[Y-NOT]

All of this gun talk is just to scare away the carjackers. We really don't have any weapons in our vehicles.

[FatBoy]

Originally Posted by mikiec

Hey, Ratboy...

???

[dave from mesa]

That was directed to DWRAT.
Just a little pet name.

[StanJ]

I am a gun owner, but I do agree that owning a firearm is not for everyone. Fear of (as opposed to respect for) anything with the potential to harm almost always makes it impossible to use that thing safely and responsibly; one needs to look no further than his or her garage or driveway for examples (lawnmower, car, etc.), and the fact of the matter is that some folks will simply never be able to get past their fear of guns no matter how many firearm safety courses they take or how many trips they make to the target range.

I own two handguns, a Glock .45 ACP and a Desert Eagle chambered for .50 AE. I don't hunt; the only reason I have them is to protect myself and my family. I take the responsibilities of gun ownership VERY seriously -- everything from security, maintenance, and safe handling procedures, yes…but also competence (I practice at least once per week, and the day I can no longer consistently shoot 4" groups at 25 yards will be the day I personally destroy my guns) and forethought about how I will respond to a situation that might call for me to use these weapons in the defense of my own life or that of a family member.

My preference for large-calibers is pragmatic and based on two simple truths: intimidation alone can sometimes be enough to end a threat (and the sight of the "business end"…particularly the D-E's…will definitely get your attention)…but in the unfortunate event that it is not, then statistically a claim of "self defense" rings true far more often when an assailant has a single very large hole in them rather than several smaller ones.

This brings me to my last point: responsible gun ownership also requires that you know yourself; i.e. have a clear set of moral parameters in place for that gun's use. Would you use deadly force to protect property? For me, the answer to that question is no; property can be replaced. But what about family? Personally, I abhor any loss of life and would look for any reasonable opportunity to avoid it, but I would not allow someone I love to be harmed by my inaction if they were in danger. I personally believe that once someone commits to a criminal physical attack on another person (rape, assault, attempted murder), the attacker's civil/human rights are forfeit until the threat of that attack is over. For some people though, the issue is not so clear-cut, and if you have any doubt about whether or not you could -- under any circumstances -- aim a firearm at another living human being and squeeze the trigger, then you should not put yourself in the position of ever having to make that decision.