Welcome to Club Cobra! The World's largest
non biased Shelby Cobra related site!
- » Representation from nearly all
Cobra/Daytona/GT40 manufacturers
- » Help from all over the world for your
questions
- » Build logs for you and all members
- » Blogs
- » Image Gallery
- » Many thousands of members and nearly 1
million posts!
YES! I want to register an account for free right now!
p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show
Main Menu
|
Nevada Classics
|
Advertise at CC
|
March 2024
|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
|
|
|
1 |
2 |
3 |
4 |
5 |
6 |
7 |
8 |
9 |
10 |
11 |
12 |
13 |
14 |
15 |
16 |
17 |
18 |
19 |
20 |
21 |
22 |
23 |
24 |
25 |
26 |
27 |
28 |
29 |
30 |
31 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
CC Advertisers
|
|
12-22-2010, 04:02 AM
|
|
Senior Club Cobra Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne,
VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC, carb 347 TopLoader and Jag running gear ~ so old school I time it with an hour-glass :D
Posts: 1,293
|
|
Not Ranked
ShelbyFest Classes 2011 on.
As reported in an earlier thread, the vexed issue of reviewing the classes for ShelbyFest 2011 fell to me.
I have been working with Jason and others to simplify the classing system and while doing so have tried to be mindful of factors such as
- the broad spectrum of modernity
- the key factors influencing relative performance
- the underlying nature of the event (track day for street cars)
- the need to transition to the desired end point
The Classing Matrix for 2011 is represented in the diagram below:
Changes of note are:
- No Modular/LS class ]- These go into their respective capacity groupings (but not 'Standard / Python' class.
- Removal of large/blown engines from Race(y) class
- Correct descritption of Tyre classification - the prior classing matrix defined the tyres that were in/out for classes but the classifications were not adhered to - due to the nature of some of the street legal rubber that turned up (mea culpa).
In 2011 we will stick with the scrutineers assessments from 2010 - this is to give competitors at least one clear year to configure their cars for the 2012 (and onward) classing system - if they choose to do so.
Classing Matrix for 2012 On
Basically were classing by size for Cobras with Street tyres and putting everything else into the Race(y) class.
We have decided to use the UTQG rating on tyres to determine whether they are street or track tyres and the minimum UTQG for a street tyre is set at 140. We chose this cut off point because it is already in use by the SCCA.
I think these groupings logical, defensible and practical and we have some precedent differentiating on UTQG 140 based on the SCCA for using that particular UTQG rating as the dividing line for the popular Street Touring class.
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_R...categories.pdf
Review of Toyo tyres to put 140 UTQG in perspective
http://octanereport.com/tech/parts-r...r1r-tires.html
List of Performance tyres and respective UTQG ratings
http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...ide/index.html
Also worth a look
http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0...nds/index.html
I - and the Cobra Car Club of Victoria - look forward to seeing you at ShelbyFest 2011
LoBelly
|
-
Advertising
12-22-2010, 08:38 PM
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Hills,
NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Absolute Pace
Posts: 1,354
|
|
Not Ranked
Lobelly,
Why no different classes splitting R Spec from Race Slicks?
Was there any discussions with the Nationals guys to work towards similar classes for both events?
Cheers,
Ben
|
12-23-2010, 02:49 AM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mildura,
vic
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR Coupe, 416ci of LS goodness
Posts: 2,349
|
|
Not Ranked
I agree, why not just adopt the same classes as the Nationals?
__________________
Powered by Cu
|
12-23-2010, 07:06 AM
|
|
Senior Club Cobra Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne,
VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC, carb 347 TopLoader and Jag running gear ~ so old school I time it with an hour-glass :D
Posts: 1,293
|
|
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay
Lobelly,
Why no different classes splitting R Spec from Race Slicks?
Was there any discussions with the Nationals guys to work towards similar classes for both events?
Cheers,
Ben
|
Hello Ben,
ShelbyFest is primarily a track day for street cars and is not really a 'race meet', although it's great to see real race cars there (maybe even the mock-ups like mine ).
For this reason we decided to find a line that would serve as the limit for a 'street' tyre. Once we decided on that line then everything beyond it becomes non-street (or racey).
I did not feel that it was further necessary to catagorise into various race(y) classes.
Looking at the 2010 nationals for an example of how this might play out...
My car has a modified 347 and no screen and Wazza's is similarly configured. I think Wazza was running large diameter slicks and I was running smaller (15in) diameter road [legal] tyres - Hoosier R6 -, I was sharing the car with Peter - Wazza split our best times. So I would say that there is relatively little in the distinction at that point.
When constructing the classing matrix I took inputs from many sources.
I think that the organisers of the Nationals should rightly be proud of every aspect of that event - including the classing system.
However, there are dozens of points that could be arbitarily used to classify entrants and by not using the same classing system as the Nationals ShelbyFest offer the opportunity for entrants to compete/compare results under a alternate view of a level playing field.
For example - (and if I'm reading the classing correctly) at the Nationals your 45year old 4.7/289 iron Windsor managed by a carby and points will be classed in with the relatively spritely fuel injected & computer controlled 346/5.7 alloy LS1 in the Street class - all other things being equal.
While there is no doubt that this is fair - at ShelbyFest these two cars would be in separate classes, (the 289 would be up against modified Coyotes and Lexus V8s) also fair. But perhaps providing for a different set of place getters.
My personal view is that it is ok for the two events to have different perspectives and see how they play out provided that they are conducted with good-will in an even and fair manner.
If you think that you have spotted an issue or believe that some aspect of the classing requires further discussion then please let us know.
We're grateful for the input.
ta
LoBelly
Last edited by LoBelly; 01-03-2011 at 07:31 PM..
Reason: omitted example
|
12-23-2010, 01:03 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mildura,
vic
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR Coupe, 416ci of LS goodness
Posts: 2,349
|
|
Not Ranked
I think it will be unfortunate that what was once a layed back event for street cars, will become an event where if you are not running slicks there is no way you could be at the pointy end of the field.
__________________
Powered by Cu
|
12-23-2010, 02:43 PM
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Hills,
NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Absolute Pace
Posts: 1,354
|
|
Not Ranked
Cheers Lobelly.
No doubt this is a difficult thing to do.
Are the guys in race class counted in the overall points and top ten shoot out etc.?
Cheers,
Ben
|
12-23-2010, 03:20 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,106
|
|
Not Ranked
Good work LoBelly. I think the only way to satisfy everyone would be to buy everyone a trophy and let them get it engraved. After all we are all just going along to enjoy our respective Cobras on the track. If we didn't enjoy that then we wouldn't be there. It's all about money really. My last set of slicks cost me $200 for the 4 of them. Try getting one half decent road tyre for that money....... Can't wait for the event!!
|
12-23-2010, 03:21 PM
|
|
Senior Club Cobra Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Melbourne,
VIC
Cobra Make, Engine: RMC, carb 347 TopLoader and Jag running gear ~ so old school I time it with an hour-glass :D
Posts: 1,293
|
|
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay
Cheers Lobelly.
No doubt this is a difficult thing to do.
Are the guys in race class counted in the overall points and top ten shoot out etc.?
Cheers,
Ben
|
Thanks for your question Ben - It highlights another point of difference between the two events.
At ShelbyFest a number of events are run but the classing only applies to the sprints. Events like the Regularity, DYO & Elimination Shootout are all open.
Competitors in all classes are eligible for the overall event awards.
ta
LoBelly
|
12-23-2010, 03:30 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gold Coast Queensland,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: Harrison#97 LS7 / T56
Posts: 1,681
|
|
Not Ranked
My car has a modified 347 and no screen and Wazza's is similarly configured. I think Wazza was running large diameter slicks and I was running smaller (15in) diameter road [legal] tyres - Hoosier R6 -, I was sharing the car with Peter - Wazza split our best times. So I would say that there is relatively little in the distinction at that point.
I'm happy to turn up and enjoy the fun of being back on the Winton track...
It doesn't make any difference to me whether I'm in a Race class or any other class...it will be plenty of fun I'm sure...
BUT...
I wouldn't take much notice of my Nationals time as a guide for how the different tyres compare.
That posted time of 1.11.35 was actually Ron Ford driving, and he had a wet track on slicks.
That's a pretty quick time in those conditions, but when we had a dry track on practice day, we were down to the 1min. 6 sec. mark.
Of course the tyres come into it, but there's plenty of other factors to consider....
I'd suggest we can get too complicated in choosing the different classes...there's probably only 50 cars to separate.....don't want 50 different classes I'm guessing.
Let's just break it up into areas....you know... STATES !!!!
|
12-23-2010, 03:57 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Sydney,
NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic Revival #3199. 366ci L76, T56 6 speed, Blue circle custom paint, Australias most original cobra 2009-2010
Posts: 2,396
|
|
Not Ranked
Heres a stupid thoght that has been running araound in my head, why dont we have some sort of a handicap system based on vehicle mods:
Everyone starts on 0 Handicap.
+4 (or whatever) secs for slicks
+2 for R spec
+1 rim size >=16
+3 for engine >= 6l
+2 for engine 5.1-6l
+2 for forced induction
+2 for aero mods
+10 for ladies driving paddle shift auto
etc etc
Class 1 = 0-1 handicap
Class 2 = 2-4
Class 3 = 5-6
etc
Would need to refine the handicaps for each "mod", and the classes, but I reckon if you looked the results from previous events you could get an idea of how much each is worth in terms of lap times. The actual seconds isn't important either, rather the relative handicaps for each mod - ie, is having slicks worth twice as much as having engine greater then 6l?
I do agree with the having fun sentiment though - I was happy to go in race class at the last nats. Doesnt worry me tht I was prob the only one on less then R spec, as at the end of the day if I wanted a trophy I could just borrow one off Gav.
Cheers
__________________
Proudly registered since 2013.
|
12-23-2010, 04:27 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mildura,
vic
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR Coupe, 416ci of LS goodness
Posts: 2,349
|
|
Not Ranked
Lol, I wouldn't mind a loan of your mot original trophy some time Andy...
I can appreciate that any decision that is made in regards to classes will be met with criticism, irrespective of what is put forward. I haven't put my hand up to help and appreciate the work that has been put into the classing. My thought was however, that people set their cars up a certain way to suit a class, so wouldn't be simpler to just have the one set of classes for the two cobra events?
__________________
Powered by Cu
Last edited by Gav; 12-23-2010 at 04:30 PM..
|
12-23-2010, 06:14 PM
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: The Hills,
NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: Absolute Pace
Posts: 1,354
|
|
Not Ranked
Ash,
Where do I get a set of slicks for $200?
Cheers,
Ben
|
12-23-2010, 09:21 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Gold Coast Queensland,
QLD
Cobra Make, Engine: Harrison#97 LS7 / T56
Posts: 1,681
|
|
Not Ranked
In the end it won't matter much about classes etc.
The fast guys will go fast, and the not so fast will be not so fast...etc. etc.
We will all have an idea of what we can do....and will be trying to go faster next time around....that's the real fun of it.
I really don't give a rats if there's plenty of others that can get around the track quicker than I can.....
Wipe mouth....and continue......
It's all about the mateship, and I'm happy to see others beat me, as long as they're enjoying themselves.....
Wipe mouth and continue.......
Looking forward to it....
Cheers,
Warren
|
12-23-2010, 10:00 PM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Mildura,
vic
Cobra Make, Engine: FFR Coupe, 416ci of LS goodness
Posts: 2,349
|
|
Not Ranked
I am looking forward to Shelbyfest, it is one of the best weekends of the year.
Only a cement colored cobra could spoil it for me!
__________________
Powered by Cu
|
12-24-2010, 01:19 AM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Alice Springs, central Australia,
NT
Cobra Make, Engine: Classic revival kit (CR3181), gen III engine, T56 6 speed box, AU XR8 lsd diff
Posts: 5,699
|
|
Not Ranked
Wish I could be there.
__________________
Cruising in 5th
---------------------------------------------
Never be afraid to do something new, Remember, Amateurs built the Ark: Professionals built the Titanic.
|
12-24-2010, 03:52 AM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Queanbeyan,
NSW
Cobra Make, Engine: AP 289 USRRC #98 The Ken Miles Tribute Car
Posts: 1,133
|
|
Not Ranked
While we are on the subject, and flame away if you think it won't work, at the Nationals seeing most are getting there early is having the Go to Whoa, Drags and Hillclimb on the Friday then sat morning have practice then have a hot lap session meaning 1 warmup then 1 flying lap all timed through the afternoon then group cars according to similar times for Sunday.
That way guys can run street tyres if they want on the Friday then change and set up for the next 2 days sprints. Maybe making all too hard. Merry Xmas
Cheers
Brett
__________________
289 FIA Cobras RULE!
|
12-28-2010, 04:49 AM
|
|
CC Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2008
Cobra Make, Engine:
Posts: 1,106
|
|
Not Ranked
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay
Ash,
Where do I get a set of slicks for $200?
Cheers,
Ben
|
eBay........
And of course if you can find a race team willing to sell you their used ones...
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:16 AM.
|
|