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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 12-22-2010, 04:02 AM
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Smile ShelbyFest Classes 2011 on.

As reported in an earlier thread, the vexed issue of reviewing the classes for ShelbyFest 2011 fell to me.

I have been working with Jason and others to simplify the classing system and while doing so have tried to be mindful of factors such as
- the broad spectrum of modernity
- the key factors influencing relative performance
- the underlying nature of the event (track day for street cars)
- the need to transition to the desired end point

The Classing Matrix for 2011 is represented in the diagram below:



Changes of note are:
- No Modular/LS class ]- These go into their respective capacity groupings (but not 'Standard / Python' class.
- Removal of large/blown engines from Race(y) class
- Correct descritption of Tyre classification - the prior classing matrix defined the tyres that were in/out for classes but the classifications were not adhered to - due to the nature of some of the street legal rubber that turned up (mea culpa).

In 2011 we will stick with the scrutineers assessments from 2010 - this is to give competitors at least one clear year to configure their cars for the 2012 (and onward) classing system - if they choose to do so.

Classing Matrix for 2012 On


Basically were classing by size for Cobras with Street tyres and putting everything else into the Race(y) class.

We have decided to use the UTQG rating on tyres to determine whether they are street or track tyres and the minimum UTQG for a street tyre is set at 140. We chose this cut off point because it is already in use by the SCCA.

I think these groupings logical, defensible and practical and we have some precedent differentiating on UTQG 140 based on the SCCA for using that particular UTQG rating as the dividing line for the popular Street Touring class.
http://cms.scca.com/documents/Solo_R...categories.pdf

Review of Toyo tyres to put 140 UTQG in perspective

http://octanereport.com/tech/parts-r...r1r-tires.html

List of Performance tyres and respective UTQG ratings

http://www.modified.com/tech/modp-09...ide/index.html

Also worth a look

http://www.europeancarweb.com/tech/0...nds/index.html

I - and the Cobra Car Club of Victoria - look forward to seeing you at ShelbyFest 2011

LoBelly
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Old 12-22-2010, 08:38 PM
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Lobelly,

Why no different classes splitting R Spec from Race Slicks?

Was there any discussions with the Nationals guys to work towards similar classes for both events?

Cheers,

Ben
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:49 AM
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I agree, why not just adopt the same classes as the Nationals?
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay View Post
Lobelly,

Why no different classes splitting R Spec from Race Slicks?

Was there any discussions with the Nationals guys to work towards similar classes for both events?

Cheers,

Ben
Hello Ben,

ShelbyFest is primarily a track day for street cars and is not really a 'race meet', although it's great to see real race cars there (maybe even the mock-ups like mine ).

For this reason we decided to find a line that would serve as the limit for a 'street' tyre. Once we decided on that line then everything beyond it becomes non-street (or racey).

I did not feel that it was further necessary to catagorise into various race(y) classes.

Looking at the 2010 nationals for an example of how this might play out...

My car has a modified 347 and no screen and Wazza's is similarly configured. I think Wazza was running large diameter slicks and I was running smaller (15in) diameter road [legal] tyres - Hoosier R6 -, I was sharing the car with Peter - Wazza split our best times. So I would say that there is relatively little in the distinction at that point.

When constructing the classing matrix I took inputs from many sources.

I think that the organisers of the Nationals should rightly be proud of every aspect of that event - including the classing system.

However, there are dozens of points that could be arbitarily used to classify entrants and by not using the same classing system as the Nationals ShelbyFest offer the opportunity for entrants to compete/compare results under a alternate view of a level playing field.

For example - (and if I'm reading the classing correctly) at the Nationals your 45year old 4.7/289 iron Windsor managed by a carby and points will be classed in with the relatively spritely fuel injected & computer controlled 346/5.7 alloy LS1 in the Street class - all other things being equal.

While there is no doubt that this is fair - at ShelbyFest these two cars would be in separate classes, (the 289 would be up against modified Coyotes and Lexus V8s) also fair. But perhaps providing for a different set of place getters.

My personal view is that it is ok for the two events to have different perspectives and see how they play out provided that they are conducted with good-will in an even and fair manner.

If you think that you have spotted an issue or believe that some aspect of the classing requires further discussion then please let us know.

We're grateful for the input.

ta
LoBelly

Last edited by LoBelly; 01-03-2011 at 07:31 PM.. Reason: omitted example
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Old 12-23-2010, 01:03 PM
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I think it will be unfortunate that what was once a layed back event for street cars, will become an event where if you are not running slicks there is no way you could be at the pointy end of the field.
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Old 12-23-2010, 02:43 PM
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Cheers Lobelly.

No doubt this is a difficult thing to do.

Are the guys in race class counted in the overall points and top ten shoot out etc.?

Cheers,
Ben
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:20 PM
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Good work LoBelly. I think the only way to satisfy everyone would be to buy everyone a trophy and let them get it engraved. After all we are all just going along to enjoy our respective Cobras on the track. If we didn't enjoy that then we wouldn't be there. It's all about money really. My last set of slicks cost me $200 for the 4 of them. Try getting one half decent road tyre for that money....... Can't wait for the event!!
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay View Post
Cheers Lobelly.

No doubt this is a difficult thing to do.

Are the guys in race class counted in the overall points and top ten shoot out etc.?

Cheers,
Ben
Thanks for your question Ben - It highlights another point of difference between the two events.

At ShelbyFest a number of events are run but the classing only applies to the sprints. Events like the Regularity, DYO & Elimination Shootout are all open.

Competitors in all classes are eligible for the overall event awards.

ta
LoBelly
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:30 PM
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My car has a modified 347 and no screen and Wazza's is similarly configured. I think Wazza was running large diameter slicks and I was running smaller (15in) diameter road [legal] tyres - Hoosier R6 -, I was sharing the car with Peter - Wazza split our best times. So I would say that there is relatively little in the distinction at that point.

I'm happy to turn up and enjoy the fun of being back on the Winton track...

It doesn't make any difference to me whether I'm in a Race class or any other class...it will be plenty of fun I'm sure...

BUT...

I wouldn't take much notice of my Nationals time as a guide for how the different tyres compare.

That posted time of 1.11.35 was actually Ron Ford driving, and he had a wet track on slicks.

That's a pretty quick time in those conditions, but when we had a dry track on practice day, we were down to the 1min. 6 sec. mark.

Of course the tyres come into it, but there's plenty of other factors to consider....

I'd suggest we can get too complicated in choosing the different classes...there's probably only 50 cars to separate.....don't want 50 different classes I'm guessing.

Let's just break it up into areas....you know...STATES !!!!
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Old 12-23-2010, 03:57 PM
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Heres a stupid thoght that has been running araound in my head, why dont we have some sort of a handicap system based on vehicle mods:

Everyone starts on 0 Handicap.

+4 (or whatever) secs for slicks
+2 for R spec
+1 rim size >=16
+3 for engine >= 6l
+2 for engine 5.1-6l
+2 for forced induction
+2 for aero mods
+10 for ladies driving paddle shift auto

etc etc

Class 1 = 0-1 handicap
Class 2 = 2-4
Class 3 = 5-6

etc

Would need to refine the handicaps for each "mod", and the classes, but I reckon if you looked the results from previous events you could get an idea of how much each is worth in terms of lap times. The actual seconds isn't important either, rather the relative handicaps for each mod - ie, is having slicks worth twice as much as having engine greater then 6l?

I do agree with the having fun sentiment though - I was happy to go in race class at the last nats. Doesnt worry me tht I was prob the only one on less then R spec, as at the end of the day if I wanted a trophy I could just borrow one off Gav.

Cheers
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Old 12-23-2010, 04:27 PM
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Lol, I wouldn't mind a loan of your mot original trophy some time Andy...
I can appreciate that any decision that is made in regards to classes will be met with criticism, irrespective of what is put forward. I haven't put my hand up to help and appreciate the work that has been put into the classing. My thought was however, that people set their cars up a certain way to suit a class, so wouldn't be simpler to just have the one set of classes for the two cobra events?
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:14 PM
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Ash,

Where do I get a set of slicks for $200?

Cheers,

Ben
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:21 PM
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In the end it won't matter much about classes etc.

The fast guys will go fast, and the not so fast will be not so fast...etc. etc.

We will all have an idea of what we can do....and will be trying to go faster next time around....that's the real fun of it.

I really don't give a rats if there's plenty of others that can get around the track quicker than I can.....

Wipe mouth....and continue......

It's all about the mateship, and I'm happy to see others beat me, as long as they're enjoying themselves.....

Wipe mouth and continue.......


Looking forward to it....


Cheers,
Warren
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Old 12-23-2010, 10:00 PM
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I am looking forward to Shelbyfest, it is one of the best weekends of the year.
Only a cement colored cobra could spoil it for me!
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Old 12-24-2010, 01:19 AM
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Wish I could be there.
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Old 12-24-2010, 03:52 AM
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While we are on the subject, and flame away if you think it won't work, at the Nationals seeing most are getting there early is having the Go to Whoa, Drags and Hillclimb on the Friday then sat morning have practice then have a hot lap session meaning 1 warmup then 1 flying lap all timed through the afternoon then group cars according to similar times for Sunday.
That way guys can run street tyres if they want on the Friday then change and set up for the next 2 days sprints. Maybe making all too hard. Merry Xmas

Cheers
Brett
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Old 12-28-2010, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beejay View Post
Ash,

Where do I get a set of slicks for $200?

Cheers,

Ben
eBay........

And of course if you can find a race team willing to sell you their used ones...
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