Boss 260/290 BA-BF-FG

[Route 66]

Hi Folks, We, my sons & I are new to the Forum and to building an AC Cobra. We have chosen a DRB Boss Cobra to have Jag Suspension, Boss 260/290 & 6spd Manual most likely from a donor car if we can find the right one. We plan do everything we can ourselves perhaps foolishly but with passion. We have lots of questions but have 3 to start and a general request so I'll split them up and look forward your suggestions.

2nd Question

As mentioned above we are planing to have a Boss 260/290 Quad 5.4L from a donor car. It seems that a BFII with the right k's is a good target but find one at the right time for the right price is a key. I have seen in some posts that the FG seems to present some problems with ECU, wiring and immobalisers and the general impression is a BF represents less of a problem? Although it seems the FG version is a "better" our stragey is for a comfortable and reliable car and as easy a build as possible. I have been told there are people that can reprogram anything but no one can actually tell me who?

We have queries on Pickles and have been keeping an eye on Manheim/Fowles looking for a donor. We had a response from Fordpro Sydney from a Findapart query and Marin was pretty helpful and price not too out there for supplying the bits. (bonus being no disassembly & not having to depsose of the wreck). Any suggestions on which model to go for or where to source would be greatly appreciated.

Regards



Route 66
Brisbane, Qld

[Rog246]

Elite Automotive in Archerfield will be able to help you with any of your chosen models.
166 Beatty Road Archerfield QLD 4108

Phone - (07) 3274 2445
Fax - (07) 3255 6529
Email - sales@eliteauto.com.au
I haven't used them myself but I know that they have a great reputation for quality service.
maybe you should give them a call they might be able to answer some of your questions
Rog

[sevenohms]

Hi, Welcome! I have a Boss BF 260 engine. In my humble opinion as a Ford man, I love my engine, but its far bigger than the LS1. The limit in these cars is 1300ish for the body width, and the Boss is 800mm across the back, plus headers. LS1 is about 100 less, and the windsor is similar. This dimension defines the width of your pedal box at 1300-800 = 500/2 = 250mm ish. The LS is a full 50mm larger. Sure you can push and pull dimensions and get 280-300 as I have, but the LS still would have more.

If I had my time again, I'd do a windsor, injected.

PM if you want more details or have a look at mine. Its not a DRB though, but the issues are similar.

Originally Posted by Route 66

Hi Folks, We, my sons & I are new to the Forum and to building an AC Cobra. We have chosen a DRB Boss Cobra to have Jag Suspension, Boss 260/290 & 6spd Manual most likely from a donor car if we can find the right one. We plan do everything we can ourselves perhaps foolishly but with passion. We have lots of questions but have 3 to start and a general request so I'll split them up and look forward your suggestions.

2nd Question

As mentioned above we are planing to have a Boss 260/290 Quad 5.4L from a donor car. It seems that a BFII with the right k's is a good target but find one at the right time for the right price is a key. I have seen in some posts that the FG seems to present some problems with ECU, wiring and immobalisers and the general impression is a BF represents less of a problem? Although it seems the FG version is a "better" our stragey is for a comfortable and reliable car and as easy a build as possible. I have been told there are people that can reprogram anything but no one can actually tell me who?

We have queries on Pickles and have been keeping an eye on Manheim/Fowles looking for a donor. We had a response from Fordpro Sydney from a Findapart query and Marin was pretty helpful and price not too out there for supplying the bits. (bonus being no disassembly & not having to depsose of the wreck). Any suggestions on which model to go for or where to source would be greatly appreciated.

Regards



Route 66
Brisbane, Qld

[sideshow]

if u get yr motor from fordpro and i guess any other shop maybe try buy complete front cut
untouched

last bf 6cyl turbo a customer got from them was supplied wrong ecu
ecu was of a different motor and spent ages trying to solve problem
what originally caused this problem was the motor had sat for a year
and that was enough time to bloody mix the parts up
some places might not find the part quickly so they sell one from complete set
then when they need to eventually sell the complete set with missing ecu they grab one from another kit again and the theme goes on
also some bits were missing like map sensor and boost controller
just ****s me when little missing things can make u loose a days work fking around

so in the end its better to buy complete smashed car as u get more and some other bits u
can use or eventaully sell
and ask a million questions when u go buying things u cant see

[AdamF]

Hiya,

I got my Boss 290 from Walliston Wreckers over here in WA. Probably doesn't help much in itself but the price I paid for the engine and a 5 speed Tremec quick shift gearbox was $4500 which, according to my engine builder mate, was a pretty good price. It's got 70k on it which is still not bad.

I second the notion about trying to get as much with the engine as you can. If you can get the ECU, BEM, ignition etc from the same car, you will be way ahead of the game. Not the end of the world if you do as I have done and purchased a complete wiring loom seperately to the engine but you will need to get the whole lot programmed before it'll do anything

Also with the Boss 290, be wary of the height of the beast. For instance, in mine, I am currently sourcing a new sump (oil pan) as it is too low when mounted. I may also have to either change out the throttle body or get the bonnet redesigned as the thing is very high
Cheers,

Adam.

[WKB]

The Boss DRB was designed and built to take Boss motor so it will fit. The plenum has a mod done which puts the throttle body to the front of it. Regardless what model you get BF/FG the ECU will need to have the other computers that are normally in the system disabled. The T56 gearbox will need to have a speedo drive unless you use you can set up speed sensors from falcon onto Jag hubs. You will need to do a remote shifter for gearbox as the gear lever on the V8 gearboxes is a long way back or to do a shifter relocation as number of people who built cars with T56 boxes on this forum have done.

You will have a better chance getting a manual ute than a manual sedan from the auctions. The bonus about buying a vehicle from the auction is that you get all the required parts to get the motor running and once they are removed you sell what remains and recoup some cash to spend elsewhere on the build.

I have not heard of any issues with FG but if you talk to BPT Motorsports in WA they should be able help out. This is the company that also have the knowledge and equipment to disable all of the computers that feed into the PCM/ECU.

Have you thought about using a Coyote motor. I know someone who is taking delivery of a DRB Boss cobra similar to yours next month and is looking at fitting a Coyote motor.

Warren

[Route 66]

Hi Adam,

I like the prices in WA. I haven't done much searching yet for a wrecker option but the first price for all the bits I want including ABS system, Fuel tank, wiring harness, Cats, Steering Column & Pedal box is $10K. The guy from Fordpro NSW was a bit better, but there is the distance. I do heed some of the other warnings about issues with a wrecker option but not having a wreck in the back yard might be better from my wife's perspective. Could make a good Veggy garden. The Donor car option is our first choice as I am sure there are lots of small bits we could farm off the car. Just gotta be in the right place at the right time.

Thanks


Route 66

Originally Posted by AdamF

Hiya,

I got my Boss 290 from Walliston Wreckers over here in WA. Probably doesn't help much in itself but the price I paid for the engine and a 5 speed Tremec quick shift gearbox was $4500 which, according to my engine builder mate, was a pretty good price. It's got 70k on it which is still not bad.

I second the notion about trying to get as much with the engine as you can. If you can get the ECU, BEM, ignition etc from the same car, you will be way ahead of the game. Not the end of the world if you do as I have done and purchased a complete wiring loom seperately to the engine but you will need to get the whole lot programmed before it'll do anything

Also with the Boss 290, be wary of the height of the beast. For instance, in mine, I am currently sourcing a new sump (oil pan) as it is too low when mounted. I may also have to either change out the throttle body or get the bonnet redesigned as the thing is very high
Cheers,

Adam.

[sideshow]

send yr t56 to someone and get a differnet rear extension fitted that has speedo sensor provision even on the ls1 t56 we sometimes get a custom rear housing from usa that can run both electric speedo sensor for ecu and cable drive for older cars like mercs and stuff for when its too hard to put electric speedo in
might cost abit but much less work than stuffing round with reluctor rings and sensors
on the axles or tailshaft

[Route 66]

Hi Warren,

The Boss 260/290 5.4L is not set in concrete but the donor car scenario all made good sense at the time. I had a close look at Peter R's Demo some time back before he sold it and the Boss is a shoe horn fit but seems to work. At the time the net was loaded with damaged XR8 Manual Utes with new ones lining up almost every time we looked. Now we have our chassis they have dried up. I know almost nothing about Ford Boss engines and even less about Coyotes. Anything without a carburretor & distributor is a bit like science fiction to me. The guy from Elite Performance here in Brisvegas said the BF was the easiest of the lot to flash tune. I have heard plenty about BPT but WA is a long way away!

Regards


Route 66

Originally Posted by WKB

The Boss DRB was designed and built to take Boss motor so it will fit. The plenum has a mod done which puts the throttle body to the front of it. Regardless what model you get BF/FG the ECU will need to have the other computers that are normally in the system disabled. The T56 gearbox will need to have a speedo drive unless you use you can set up speed sensors from falcon onto Jag hubs. You will need to do a remote shifter for gearbox as the gear lever on the V8 gearboxes is a long way back or to do a shifter relocation as number of people who built cars with T56 boxes on this forum have done.

You will have a better chance getting a manual ute than a manual sedan from the auctions. The bonus about buying a vehicle from the auction is that you get all the required parts to get the motor running and once they are removed you sell what remains and recoup some cash to spend elsewhere on the build.

I have not heard of any issues with FG but if you talk to BPT Motorsports in WA they should be able help out. This is the company that also have the knowledge and equipment to disable all of the computers that feed into the PCM/ECU.

Have you thought about using a Coyote motor. I know someone who is taking delivery of a DRB Boss cobra similar to yours next month and is looking at fitting a Coyote motor.

Warren

[WKB]

Originally Posted by Route 66

Hi Warren,

The Boss 260/290 5.4L is not set in concrete but the donor car scenario all made good sense at the time. I had a close look at Peter R's Demo some time back before he sold it and the Boss is a shoe horn fit but seems to work. At the time the net was loaded with damaged XR8 Manual Utes with new ones lining up almost every time we looked. Now we have our chassis they have dried up. I know almost nothing about Ford Boss engines and even less about Coyotes. Anything without a carburretor & distributor is a bit like science fiction to me. The guy from Elite Performance here in Brisvegas said the BF was the easiest of the lot to flash tune. I have heard plenty about BPT but WA is a long way away!

Regards


Route 66

The boss motor is a shoe horn fit in any car I have seen. I can't remove the tappet covers in the 540 unless I remove the motor, it's tight.

When I started looking for a donor car for the 540 I built the available sedans at the auctions appeared to dry up. They did start to re-appear again, but manuals are rare(except in utes). With the online bidding you can buy from any state easily. I bought one from NSW, transport to my door was pretty cheap.

If you are going to fit the ABS the BA/BF utes run a 3 channel system and the sedans have a 4 channel system. The FG's are all 4 channel.
While looking for an engine or donor car try avoid the series 1 BA. These motors had some issues with valve guides and plastic timing chain guides. I think all these issues were sorted out with the series 2 BA's

Although BPT are in WA they are only a phone call away. When I was talking to them a while ago they mentioned that DRB have sent them ECU's .

Warren

[sideshow]

r u sure ba fords have 3 channel abs
by 3 channel i would thing thats 2 sensors on front and one on tailshaft output shaft

pretty sure they have a sensor on all 4 wheels
thought most cars since 2000 have a 4 channel setuop which is sensor on each wheel
my ford workshop manual says abs has 4 sensors and engine gets speed signal from abs ecu
if car doesnt have abs speed signal to ecu is from left hand rear abs ring or reluctor

[Dimis]

Route 66,
Best of luck with your project.
I look forward to seeing it develop.

If you can stretch the budget - spring for the Coyote.
It is a far superior engine, and will make for a more "enjoyable" ride on completion.

Boss motors are cast iron, thus are heavy, the Coyote in contrast are Alu thus lighter, all things being equal, this will improve cornering, braking, & accelerating.

They have lighter internals which means they rev up quicker.

They are more fuel efficient & plenty powerful enough bullet proof naturally aspirated, but in case you want more power are SC ready!

Further, future development on the coyote engine will only push it further ahead. ie- factory direct injection (which early reports suggest is just as simple as swapping heads), & a whole bunch of aftermaket stuff being pumped out.

The engine's physical size is much the same as the boss, so your DRB cobra chasis (foot boxes, etc) I'd guess should be 'coyote' ready.

A new coyote, plus auxillaries ie - ECU, gearbox & driveline might cost you $5k or so more than a wreck boss engine. But you'll get a fresh new engine & you can mate it to a tko500/600 which again is lighter yet more than strong enough.

Also should you ever need to sell it, youll see most of it returned on the other side.

Anyway, some food for thought.

[boss ac]

Good luck with it boys i have just finished the same chassis with 290 and 6 spd auto...although during the build a Yella Terra super charger somehow fell on top...With the help of some very clever people from the Vic Cobra car club (dont kid yourself you will need it) you will love the DRB/Boss combo.I am happy to answer any questions i can and like everyone did more than a few things twice...just pm me and i will onsend my e-mail and mobile number and pics of any parts/ designs your not sure of.

[boxhead]

The donor ute my mate bought for his 540 is definatly a 3 channel ABS system

[sideshow]

3 channel abs bloody dodgey fords

come to think of it maybe its purely for the utes as maybe since they r tail happy
it might upset the abs module so they run sensor on tailshaft which gives more
accurate signal when yr drifting sideways thru the intersectons heheheheheheh