End of the line for Holden

[Rossba]

Read this article and it reminded me what I saw in the late eighties when I was at Ford.
I could see these union reps thinking they were **** hot getting high pays for employees (even ones that didn't deserve it) but in reality making it harder for manufacturing to make money.
I saw this coming from then, it was just a matter of when.

ONLY $150 million a year will save Holden? Rubbish. The Holden Enterprise Agreement is the document that has utterly sunk Holden's prospects. It defies belief that someone in the company isn't being held to account for it.
Holden's management masks a union culture beyond most people's comprehension. Employment costs spiralled way beyond community standards long ago. Neither "pay freezes" nor more money will save Holden, but getting the Fair Work Commission to dissolve the agreement and put all workers on the award wage might be a start.
In 1991, the pre-enterprise bargaining award wage of a Holden entry level process worker was $462.80 a week. In 1992, Holden began enterprise bargaining and now a worker at that same classification level has a base rate of $1194.50 a week, a 158 per cent increase, or a compound increase of 4.4 per cent year on year for 22 years. Right now, base wage rates for process workers in the Holden enterprise agreement are in the $60,000 to $80,000 per year range and in recent times, "hardship payments" of $3750 were given to each worker.
The modern award for such workers mandates base rates in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. This means that before we add any of the shift penalties, loadings, 26 allowances and the added cost of productivity restrictions, Holden begins each working day paying its workforce almost double what it should. After you add in the other employment costs, I estimate Holden's workforce costs it somewhere close to triple the amount it should.
Many people who work at Holden don't actually work for Holden; they work for the union. Occupational health and safety people are given 10 days' paid time off a year to be trained by the union. Most companies do not allow unions to train their OH&S people because the knowledge is used to control the workplace to the benefit of the union.
Union delegates are also allowed up to 10 paid days a year for union training in how to be effective union delegates and two of these delegates are entitled to an extra Holden sponsorship of one paid month off to "further their industrial and/or leadership development".
Holden's rules on hiring casuals are shocking and unheard of in today's market. The agreement forbids Holden from hiring casuals except when a "short-term increase in workload, or other unusual circumstances occurs". If this situation arises Holden has to "consult and reach agreement" with the union. Further, "Engagement of the agreed number of casual personnel will be for the agreed specified tasks and the agreed specified periods." If any of this changes, Holden must get union agreement again. After three months of continuous full-time work a casual must be made permanent. It is impossible to run a business like this.
An ex-employee from Adelaide, on condition of anonymity, consented to an interview yesterday. He described the workforce as "over-managed", with one team leader for every six workers on the production line, when one for every 25 workers would suffice.
He said "some of us workers felt it wasn't necessary to get paid what we were getting paid to do the jobs we were doing", adding that their work is probably worth about "20 bucks an hour". A few years back, mates took redundancy packages in the order of "$280k plus". Workers are "like sheep" that blindly follow the union leadership. At induction, new workers are ushered into one-on-one meetings with the union rep who heavies them into joining. "It is made clear that if you don't join the union you will be sacked," he said. Union representatives "don't actually do any work for Holden", but rather make themselves full-time enforcers of union control.
He says workers are drug tested before hiring, but "only have to stay off it for a few weeks, get in the door and then you'll be right". Workers caught taking drugs or being drug-affected at work are allegedly put on a fully paid rehabilitation program, with special paid time off of about four weeks duration, before being let back into the workforce.
Australian workplaces have a zero tolerance for drug use, with instant dismissal the remedy, but at Holden "the union won't let the company sack" any workers caught dealing, taking or being on drugs. "If they did a random drug test tomorrow they'd probably have to sack 40 per cent of the workforce," he adds.
If the Holden scenario were playing out in a privately owned business, proper cost-cutting strategies would be used. If you have the will and can hire the skill, there are many ways to cut labour costs. The workers can be given a couple of years notice of significant wage drops and can receive lump sum payouts of entitlements to help bring down family debt.
Of course, these strategies are only ever used by business people who have no one else to bail them out. It seems Holden would rather leave the country than dissolve its enterprise agreement. The union thinks members are better off jobless than on award wages. Holden's fate seems sealed.
If Holden does leave, workers will receive the most generous redundancy benefits around. Holden says leaving will cost $600m. Most of this will go to staff payouts. The fellow interviewed agrees with my calculation: the average production-line worker will walk away with a redundancy package of between $300k-500k.

Grace Collier

Our Managing Director is widely recognised as one of Australia’s leading industrial relations experts. Owing to 8 years in the Union Movement followed by over a decade consulting to a wide range of businesses in the private sector, Grace is uniquely placed to deliver practical and sound results for both the business community and employees alike. Grace understands that industrial relations is not just about the law; it is about people.
Grace has more than 18 years of first-hand experience in the field of Industrial Relations. Grace is also a columnist for the Australian Financial Review, she is listed as a specialist commentator for radio station 2GB and appears regularly as a commentator on Paul Murray Live, SKY TV. Grace is often quoted by various other media and consulted by corporations and governments on workplace issues

[Legless]

Didn't take long.

[tomcat racing]

Not trying to pick over the bones of a carcass here, but,

Something just doesnt add up,

D488y2 posted up holdens facebook page presumebly written by one of their managerial staff and quotes holdens annual wages bill at $490 million.

Wikipedia states holdens workforce as of december 2013 at 2900 people.

On those figures each employee earned an average of $168,965.
Even the janitor and the forklift drivers.
Yes i know some will earn a lot more than others but thats the average,

Thats double the upper estimate given,

Whos Fibbing.

[Modena]

I think maybe the number of 2900 people is full timers, whereas the $490 million would include all shifts, casuals, etc. maybe?

[Towmaster]

All I know is that if we had to pay our employees double the award then we would now be manufacturing off shore..... Either that or just plain broke!
Unions are good to a point but then they just get too big & greedy & ultimately lose all their customers because they have priced them out of town... Sad but inevitable unfortunately...

[Dimis]

Do you REALLY think it's our unions?
Or is it perhaps the lack of unions in the foreign countries that they (fat cats) are now exploiting.

Governments are in a bind (liberal &/or labour) they are caught between paying millions to Holdens or ford to supplement wages, or paying the same people at the dole queue.
What choice do they really have?

All this talk about how much the labour costs are, in my mind deter from who is walking away with the money. If 10 forklift drivers are pocketing $80k per year for a full days work and overtime that pales into insignificance to 5 middle managers who are raking in $250k because some big wig wants to palm off his duties under the guise of "delegating"

I'm no socialist, but when clowns in suits who offer little to no value add are walking away with disproportionately large pay checks, it pisses me off.

The marketing clowns who wrote the BS that was posted on Holden's Facebook page are... Well don't get me started on that.

[Towmaster]

Why do people working in Holden get double + the pay of some guy doing the same job in a privately owned manufacturing business. And more than likely the guy working in the small business is doing twice the actual work. If he doesn't pull his weight then he is out. Try that with a Union strong large business.
Someone I know very well (I won't say who because people would know if I said who it was) has a person on their budget that has been off work for two years on stress leave because his boss yelled at him.....once! And it's not a government job. This sort of sh17 is rife amongst the lazy ass lawyer friendly a55es that populate the planet. Fair days pay for a fair days work. And $80k for unskilled labour is ridiculous, especially in a non remote area. I have Aussie friends (Senior Engineers, 10 years experience) working in a consulting firm in Vancouver, Canada, that are earning the same money.
Is it the unions????? Of course not, Holden and Ford just doubled the wages of their workers because they thought they were doing such a great job and they were really nice people.

[tomcat racing]

To me it can be only one of two things,

That figure of $490 million for wages is BS, TOTAL exaggeration by holden,
They have always been good at spinning a yarn to gullible people.

OR if its true, The Fatcat management at holden are paying themselves huge fees to run an inept company.
Probably the most likely senario here.
Management salarys are never disclosed.

I would bet my leftie that the workers didnt earn $169,000 a year.

If holden were happy to pay $80,000 a year to their workers, its because they were paying themselves multiple times that on the gravy train of our taxpayers money.

[Wazza]

It keeps showing me that TOMCAT has added to the thread...but nothing there?

What have you done Tom...broken it?

Cheers

[tomcat racing]

Yea dunno, posted that yesterday, it said i did but nothing there, never had that happen before.

[Donunder]

This shows just what a small fish the Australian motor vehicle manufacturing industry is in terms of how GM sees its future. It's a wonder that they kept manufacturing in this country for as long as they did.

General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Donunder

This shows just what a small fish the Australian motor vehicle manufacturing industry is in terms of how GM sees its future. It's a wonder that they kept manufacturing in this country for as long as they did.

General Motors is becoming China Motors - YouTube

What annoys me to no end is that companies like; Holden, KFC and Maccas, all try to make you believe (either blatantly or subtly) they are Australian owned enterprises.

An example is the current Holden add.
We're Here To Stay - YouTube

There's so much spin in this, I'd prefer to never buy or deal with companies who are as dishonest as this. They remind me too much of politicians.

[Donunder]

Originally Posted by Dimis

What annoys me to no end is that companies like; Holden, KFC and Maccas, all try to make you believe (either blatantly or subtly) they are Australian owned enterprises.

Exactly right -- and the sound track of this vid shows that even our popular "football meat pies kangaroos and Holden cars" jingle was a direct steal from their "baseball hot dogs apple pie and Chevrolet" campaign.

Good riddance I say, and as soon as our "local" manufacturers disappear there will be no need to "protect" a defunct industry. Accordingly there should be no excuse for our vehicle pricing not to assume parity with that of overseas markets. Dreaming??

[Towmaster]

Yay I can't wait to be able to buy a Kia or a Hyundai..... Or maybe one of those excellent great walls.....

Why hasn't Toyota suffered the tall poppy syndrome yet??

You all seem to be saying you would rather buy a Kia than an imported Holden or Ford.....

Apparently it doesn't matter what badge it wears, they're all the same right, bit like an LS in a Cobra...

WTF?

[sambo]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

bit like an LS in a Cobra... WTF?

Don't you mean hot rods with glass bodies shaped like an AC Cobra?

[Donunder]

Ash the point I was trying to make is this --- If I were fortunate enough to have say $60K to spend on a car at the moment I could choose a mid to top range Commodore for instance or an entry level euro, say.

The Commodore would be the usual three to four years behind the euros in terms of technological advancement, would be noticeably deficient in measurable areas such as Noise Vibration and Harshness, and would depreciate at much the same percentage rate.

If the Holden product were not manufactured in Australia there would morally be no need for tariff protection, introduced to protect a product unable to compete with overseas cars in just about every aspect, and there would be no need for a luxury car tax, originally introduced to deter buyers from buying high-end imports and to buy the local product.

So... with the phasing out of the luxury car tax (if the govt could bring itself to do the right thing) and the abolition of tariff protection, my $60K suddenly allows me to buy an E Class Merc or an Audi A5 or a 5 series BMW, and yes even the Hyundai Genesis, mentioned earlier, with plenty of change left over.

For years we've been funnelled towards the local product, even though it has been foreign owned and has been showered with huge sums by the govt to remain viable, and, and I acknowledge the importance of this, to provide employment for lots of Australians who in many instances would struggle to hold down jobs outside of the boring repetitive work found on an inefficient and outmoded vehicle asembly line.

The You Tube I posted reveals that GM has also been sucking huge amounts from the US govt. Detroit has collapsed and GM now produce 70% of vehicles off-shore because it can't produce them in the US due to this same inefficiency, which has forced it to establish new plants in emerging industrial countries such as China where, and again I acknowledge the problem, labour costs are lower, and computerised and robotised assembly produces a far superior product at the expense of providing employment to many.

This vid of the new Tesla plant in California shows the future of car assembly, and the production process is similar to that of many euro and Asian car makers, who also have moved off-shore in many instances -- Honda to Thailand, BMW to Turkey etc.

Tesla Motors Part 1: Behind the Scenes of how the Tesla Model S is Made-The Window-WIRED - YouTube

The big three, Ford GMH and Toyota have unanimously declared that making cars in Australia is unsustainable. The govt now must accept that fact, sooner rather than later, and start making plans to relocate the many thousands of unskilled workers in this industry who will be displaced as a result of our being conned for so long by the US companies into not updating and modernising their assembly plants. And for not making, for many years, the cars that Australians have been wanting to buy. How long did it take them to get into the SUV market? How many taxis are still Falcons or Commodores? Too slow --they were caught napping by the Asians.

It's a global economy now, and our cars will be made in countries where technology has been embraced. We had the chance.....

[darkside]

not sure how reliable the source is but was told few days ago that gm wants to sell off the holden name and everything it associated with(commodore etc)so if true then gm usa really had no intentions of staying here regardless of guvmint muney just looking for more handouts..noice one fellas

as for the comment about toyotas,the hilux hasnt been changed in nearly 8 yrs....prolly out back of factory facelifting yur 5yr old trade in and reselling it ..certainly know how to make a buck them asian fellas......doc

[Aussie Mike]

Originally Posted by darkside

as for the comment about toyotas,the hilux hasnt been changed in nearly 8 yrs....prolly out back of factory facelifting yur 5yr old trade in and reselling it ..certainly know how to make a buck them asian fellas......doc

I don't have a problem with the Hilux not changing. If the design works why change it? Otherwise it's just change for change sake. A marketing scam to make people buy the fancy new model when in reality the old one was just as good for it's intended purpose.

This is one of the things thing that annoys me about the car industry. They have a redesign every couple of years and make a whole new car. While it might be nice to see a completely new looking Commodore it really f#cks the value of 2nd hand cars.

For a car I would buy myself I prefer the ones that have longer runs of the same model with just evolutionary changes. The Europeans were pretty good at this for a long time and I think that's part of the reason a lot hold their value better than the local equivalents. That seems to be changing now as they adopt this new marketing model so not to be left behind in the money grab.

To me it makes more sense for manufacturers to get as much life out of the tooling they can. The industry has made a rod for it's own back with this constant change for change sake marketing model. These major redesigns cost a lot in R&D and then retooling the lines. Costs that need to be born by the folks buying the cars so the price goes up. Since the customers won't take too much of this there is pressure to reduce costs by moving production to countries with cheap labour.

I hate this current throw away mentality that has gotten into everything we buy. It's driven by the marketing departments of companies that make stuff because they want to sell you more sh!t you don't need.

Your average consumer needs to take a good look at themselves. There's the idea that once a car hits 100,000KM and is out of warranty it's worn out "Got to get rid of it, it's costing me too much money!". What a bunch of sh!t. If they added up the real cost it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper to keep that older car on the road. Think of the depreciation hit you take on selling the old car and then fronting up the extra cash for the new and improved one. All so you can have the latest and greatest.

"But think of the money I'll save! The new one does 10L/100 when the old one used 11L/100" they cry. Never mind you just blew $30K in the change over. I'll try to put that into perspective...

$1.50L for reg unleaded.
10L/100KM = $15 per 100KM
$15,000/100,000KM

11L/100 =$16.50 per 100KM
$16.500/100,000KM

$1500 per 100,000KM better off. That means you need to drive about a million KM before you are in front of the $30K dropped in the change over. Given the average punter seems to reckons a car is worn out by 100,000KM. Well....

End of rant.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Towmaster

You all seem to be saying you would rather buy a Kia than an imported Holden or Ford.

WTF?

Huh?
Sorry, but all I've said is I ain't buying from a company that Bullsh!ts me.

If you want to buy a Holden or other, go ahead, knock yourself out

As for LS in a cobra - I let you in on a badly kept secret...
No-one actually cares. There are those (like me), who tease and poke the bear... seemingly sometimes people take the bait.

If it makes you feel better, I'd be happy to have an LS powered cobra in my garage.
Are you offering one.

[jcraigau]

If I had to drive a Korean car, a 5L 429HP R-Spec E-Class knock off would be OK.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/genesis/comparison.aspx