End of the line for Holden

[sambo]

I know there are strong arguments for and against propping up the local automotive industry but it's a shame from a historical point of view.

General Motors announces it will close Holden Adelaide operations in 2017 | News.com.au

[fordracing65]

GM sucks anyway...

[darkside]

how r we gonna keep the dikheads out of fords now...doc

[Gav]

Very disappointing news Sambo.

Even a half intelligent Ford fan would realize that many jobs will go with their closing operations in SA.

[fordracing65]

Originally Posted by Gav

Very disappointing news Sambo.

Even a half intelligent Ford fan would realize that many jobs will go with their closing operations in SA.

People loose their jobs all the time, half will get other jobs in the same field and the other half will be better off if they are closing. GM was sucking tax dollars anyway, I don't ever want to see people loose their jobs but the way the GM situation was handled in the USA was a joke, no wonder they are out...

[Gav]

They will be closed before then too Doc.

[Gav]

The auto industry the world over is propped up with tax payer cash.
One of the reasons is that the auto industry is a huge employer, they are also providers of further education of their employees, which many other industries wind up benefiting from.

I trained with Ford and the opportunities for further training and education where fantastic, it will be a great loss if we loose the Australian car industry.
Asia will be grateful though.

[Rick Parker]

I had read in a trade publication Ford was closing in 2014.

[Jethrow]

Ford is going 2016.

Now Holden 2017.

A sad day for Australia, and for all lovers of V8 RWD sedans. There are now even less choices

But lets be clear. The unions, as much as anything else, have killed this industry. They clap and cheer each successful pay rise and penalty condition they coerce out of Holden, never considering the effect of their actions, never offering to endure (or even consider) a small paycut in the lean times, and now look what happens.

A tragedy.

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by Jethrow

Ford is going 2016.

Now Holden 2017.

A sad day for Australia, and for all lovers of V8 RWD sedans. There are now even less choices

But lets be clear. The unions, much more than anything else, have killed this industry. They clap and cheer each succesful pay rise and penalty condition they coerce out of Holden, never considering the effect of their actions, never offering to endure (or even consider) a small paycut in the lean times, and now look what happens.

A tradgedy.

Why dont you learn some facts, before you post up this dribble.

Holden australia have been given 2 billion dollars from the australian taxpayer over the last 12 years, more than any other company in history.
Their workforce has averaged 2500 employees, at i would average out at $65000 year, and thats being generous.

Do the sums, thats a wages bill of 162.5 million a year, multiply that by 12 years totals 1.95 billion, give or take.

So good old GMH have basically had their entire workforce paid for by the australian taxpayer for the last 12 years, and they bleat on about how hard done by they are.

Most of the profits they have made have been sent back to head office, GM USA, to help prop up that bankrupt company and for those bosses to squander by their ineptitude.

Holdens have always been cheaper to manufacture in australia than their opposition, throw in the free wages bill, and they say they cant compete.

I would suffice to say the real story is GM USA has spat the dummy when they have been told their pipeline of free money from me and you is going to be cut off, they have had it too good for too long. GM doesnt give two hoots about Australia.
So lets be clear,
Its got nothing to do with the unions son, but its got everything to do with the mismanagement of GM USA.
I wish i could have had my wages bill paid for all of my employees for the last 12 years by you and other taxpayers.

[Jethrow]

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

Why dont you learn some facts, before you post up this dribble.

One always have to grin to see a post that begins like this and then proceeds to state a whole lot of made up "facts".

You want facts? OK.

Right now, the base wage, before any allowances, shift loadings, etc etc stands in the range $60,000 to $80,000. This according to Holden's Enterprise Agreement. And there are many loadings on top of this, such as the very recent "hardship payment" of $3750 which was given to each worker.

The equivalent award wage is in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. So off the bat Holden are paying twice the award. And by the time you do add in all the allowances, the extra leave, etc etc, it is more like three times the award.

And you must consider of course, GM (or any company for that matter) does not have to manufacture in this country. They can go anywhere. So why should they stay here? Or even say manufacture in the USA where they would face similar problems?

Oh yes, that is because the American AUW, wanting to keep the manufacturing in its country, agreed to cut their wages by half. Look it up. 6 years ago they took a positive step to keep the industry going. What did we do here?

All they are arguing about now is the size of the redundancy payments. Way to go lads.

But you were right on some points. Most of the subsidies did go on wages. We agree there. But it did not cover the whole wage bill, mostly went to correct for the amount of overpayment.

And what kind of business case is that? It only works if the government agrees to pay the excess wages, over award, mandated by the unions? It was OK when the unions own party was in power, but now it isn't.

So yes, I am happy to know some facts. I hope you learnt some too.

And I ain't your son.

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by Jethrow

One always have to grin to see a post that begins like this and then proceeds to state a whole lot of made up "facts".

You want facts? OK.

Right now, the base wage, before any allowances, shift loadings, etc etc stands in the range $60,000 to $80,000. This according to Holden's Enterprise Agreement. And there are many loadings on top of this, such as the very recent "hardship payment" of $3750 which was given to each worker.

The equivalent award wage is in the $37,000 to $42,000 range. So off the bat Holden are paying twice the award. And by the time you do add in all the allowances, the extra leave, etc etc, it is more like three times the award.

And you must consider of course, GM (or any company for that matter) does not have to manufacture in this country. They can go anywhere. So why should they stay here? Or even say manufacture in the USA where they would face similar problems?

Oh yes, that is because the American AUW, wanting to keep the manufacturing in its country, agreed to cut their wages by half. Look it up. 6 years ago they took a positive step to keep the industry going. What did we do here?

All they are arguing about now is the size of the redundancy payments. Way to go lads.

But you were right on some points. Most of the subsidies did go on wages. We agree there. But it did not cover the whole wage bill, mostly went to correct for the amount of overpayment.

And what kind of business case is that? It only works if the government agrees to pay the excess wages, over award, mandated by the unions? It was OK when the unions own party was in power, but now it isn't.

So yes, I am happy to know some facts. I hope you learnt some too.

And I ain't your son.

Hey grinner,

None of my facts are made up.

Theres nothing to be learned from your dribble.

Go and put some oil on your dipstick, youre a dry well of knowledge.

Congratulate yourself on being in the 70% category.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

So good old GMH have basically had their entire workforce paid for by the australian taxpayer for the last 12 years, and they bleat on about how hard done by they are.

Most of the profits they have made have been sent back to head office, GM USA, to help prop up that bankrupt company and for those bosses to squander by their ineptitude.

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

I would suffice to say the real story is GM USA has spat the dummy when they have been told their pipeline of free money from me and you is going to be cut off, they have had it too good for too long. GM doesnt give two hoots about Australia.

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

So lets be clear,
Its got nothing to do with the unions son, but its got everything to do with the mismanagement of GM USA.
I wish i could have had my wages bill paid for all of my employees for the last 12 years by you and other taxpayers.

Tuesday, 10 December 2013 14:59

U.S. Treasury Sells Its GM Shares at a Loss, Claims Taxpayer Victory
Written by Bob Adelmann

Treasury Secretary Jacob Lew announced on Monday afternoon that his department had sold the remaining shares of GM that it acquired following the forced bankruptcy of the auto giant in 2009, and made the $10.5 billion loss sound like it was a victory:

The President’s leadership in responding to the financial crisis helped stabilize the auto industry and prevent another Great Depression. With the final sale of GM stock, this important chapter in our nation’s history is now closed.

The President understood that inaction could have cost the broader economy more than one million jobs, billions in lost personal savings, and significantly reduced economic production.

They should have been forced out of existence in 2008 along with GE, Citi, Chase Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America and Wells Fargo. One of the largest transfers of debt to U.S. citizenry - at the end of a gun.

I would not drive one of their vehicles if it were given to me.

[darkside]

if you think about it ,maybe Australia would be a different country if we had our own steel mills instead of sending our iron overseas and then buying it back this type of thing has been our downfall for years,we seem to be a liquidation shop in the form of a country,sold of just about every asset we had including ports ,who the hell sells a port then we buy outdated technology at overinflated prices..the whole thing is bad...well what happens when there is nothing left,...doc

[spookypt]

Originally Posted by darkside

if you think about it ,maybe Australia would be a different country if we had our own steel mills instead of sending our iron overseas and then buying it back this type of thing has been our downfall for years,we seem to be a liquidation shop in the form of a country,sold of just about every asset we had including ports ,who the hell sells a port then we buy outdated technology at overinflated prices..the whole thing is bad...well what happens when there is nothing left,...doc

My pop is 95 and a WW2 Vet. He was in the infantry in Darwin (he was in charge of the trucks that pulled the gun transport) and on the way to PNG's Kakoda when Darwin was bombed. He reminds me often how when Japan bombed us in Darwin he dived under a Chev army truck and when he rolled out the bomb shrapnel that had been dropped on us still had "BHP" stamped on it!

We sold it to Japan pre WW2 and they sent it back to us on the back of some TNT!

(Just as a side note, my pop got called up, loaded and then told to get off the transport ships on the way to PNG 4 times. In the end he never got there. I can't even imagine the anxiety that he must have experienced with wife and 3kids at home. Tuff old bastard!)


Back on topic.....

[tomcat racing]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

They should have been forced out of existence in 2008 along with GE, Citi, Chase Morgan, Merrill Lynch, Bank of America and Wells Fargo. One of the largest transfers of debt to U.S. citizenry - at the end of a gun.

I would not drive one of their vehicles if it were given to me.

Thank You ERA 276,
Herein lies the real facts about GMH folding, go back and read your quote you posted up about the last 10.5 billion in shares being sold by the US Govt last monday.

There is no more money coming from the american taxpayer to prop up GM USA who are in serious trouble.

Wednesday morning in Australia, GMH announces its closure.

You dont have to be einstein to work that one out.

I knew this had happened, but this info is not readily published in any australian media, they like to keep everyone downunder dumbed down so the 70%s blame the unions etc.

This company has been surviving worldwide on taxpayers handouts by bribing governments, while their CEOS have been flying around the world in their private jets.

Another Fact,
When the american car industry fell in a heap in 2008 under Bushs watch, Barack Obama in 2009 called in the heads of the big three car companies, the CEO of GM flew into Washington DC in his BIG ostentacious jet and Obama was not amused, such a display of greedy arrogance for a company in deep trouble was not going to be tolerated.
He called for his head, and he got it, the CEO was sacked and im pretty sure all the board resigned.
Total ineptude at the top of the company.

Thats whats wrong with this world, all corporate debt is being transfered to the citizens of countries by conservative governments, thats the real story of what happened in Greece and Spain.

But you wont read anything about that in Murdocks newspapers or on ****tell

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by tomcat racing

Thank You ERA 276

My pleasure - I forgot Chrysler - we essentially paid Fiat $1.2b to take it.

[Modena]

On the positive side, maybe will be able buy a Corvette or Camaro here.

[Gaz64]

Originally Posted by Modena

On the positive side, maybe will be able buy a Corvette or Camaro here.

I work in a Brisbane Holden dealership, and that's what we were talking about today.

[Zedn]

I doubt we will get the chevs. It'll be the crap from Korea and wherever else they get cheap labour.

Well done unions you bunch of morons. Just can't believe people cough up money to join unions so their money can be blown on corrupt activity and they their employers can no longer afford to operate.

Sad day for Australia and big cross against the liberals in my eyes.