Club Rego

[Treeve]

gents,

Thought I'd bring it up, that many in Vic are looking at club rego as a way of not having to get their car engineered (quotes of $2k for engineering being too much).

For that money, just consider that you are getting a professional to look over your vehicle and ensure that not only is it compliant with the legislation, but that it is SAFE.

What I think many people miss is not that if they hurt themselves, tough luck, but that if you have a crash on the roads, the plates on your car make a real difference - full registration means you will have plenty of insurances etc. Also, that you will be less likely to be in this situation since your car (should) have been tested. I can be a grown up and deal with accidents that I cause to myself - I've come off enough bikes. But what about if the car I built then 'shortcutted' to driving through a club scheme is involved in an accident where someone is seriously hurt or worse?

Will the club have suitable insurances for this?
Will you have valid insurance in this situation?

We all love a bit of bling on our cars - I have spent more than most spend on Cobras building a clubbie. But to 'save' a few $k so you can shortcut the system and get on the road will only lead to a couple of things happening:

1. The club scheme will be recognised as a rort and will probably be stopped
2. Someone will end up hurt, and since the figures show that are more accidents with >1 car than single car accidents, you can be pretty sure it won't just be you in your club car who gets hurt.

Just think about it.

Treeve

p.s. if you want to email me and talk to me about club registration, how about recognising that I am a vehicle certifier, and hence will always recommend you get your vehicle certified and registered at least once. If you've been through these steps then go for club rego and save the money. But don't just head straight there, as from my experience every single ICV has at least one major failing that the owner must correct. I don't care if you don't like what I have to say about this, I just want to be safe on the road with the other road users, and not put at risk by some shortcutting prick who can spend a ****load on rims and tyres, but not enough on the actual engineering.

[sambo]

Treeve I get the gist of your message but it's unfair to imply that those going on club plates are deliberately cutting corners. I know the Vic club takes the process very seriously and a roadworthy certificate is required. Club permits include TAC insurance and the owner should be taking out 3rd party cover in the very least, given the minimal cost.

Regarding 2k engineering cost, that's roughly what I paid and I think it's fair money in the scheme of things.

Remember that full rego costs an extra $600 annually and several thousand in stamp duty on first registration. The limited use club permit represents exceptional value for a weekend driver.

Question - if someone goes through engineering and straight onto club plates, how long is the engineering certificate valid for? Eg, if the owner switches to full rego 10 years later will it need to comply with any ADR changes during those 10 years?

[Treeve]

G'day Sambo,

That's a fair question, and I guess the detail of my point is missing - I've seen people get unregistered vehicle certificates for ICVs in NSW (which requires a roadworthy) and when I've tested the cars they've been too dangerous to allow them to drive home from the test venue. The same vehicle had made it 4 hours from Sydney through the Blue Mountains though. This is why I'm concerned about missing out on getting full registration with an engineer first - if the car hadn't been brought here, the owner would almost certainly have been in harms way with the vehicle left as it was. After similar events happened on the third car, I do not recommend anyone travel to Orange for certification on a UVP!

Re: the year of certification. Once your vehicle gets a VIN, that is the year of the vehicle. To demonstrate this point, I have worked with a customer who bought a car which has never been registered in NSW as an ICV. The VIN for their vehicle was issued in 03/1991. Therefore I only have to certify the vehicle as if it were a March 1991 ICV.

I guess the point of my post is that I've had several questions from several people about what they can 'get away with'. Simply put - I don't want to see people getting hurt, and even those who build with the best intentions can still make mistakes and oversights - I've been wrong on more than one issue, and I treat it as a chance to learn. What would be upsetting is finding out that someone's chance to learn has come at the expense of vehicle damage, personal injury or worse. The engineering schemes in each state are there to protect all road users, not just those of us building cars. Lets not push our luck or take the right to drive cool cars for granted.

Treeve

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Treeve

For that money, just consider that you are getting a professional to look over your vehicle and ensure that not only is it compliant with the legislation, but that it is safe

Treeve, I like you and what you do for us ICV guys, but I got to hold you to account here and challenge the conclusion you've drawn with the above statement.

In your line of work, YOU should know that compliance, in many instances has NOTHING to do with actual safety, and a lot to do with simply meeting bureaucracy driven outcomes instigated by insurance companies and governments, written into law to increase their bottom lines.

As a premise I agree. Don't short cut safety. But full compliance doesn't make you safer.
Eg. I ride bicycles. Wearing a helmet is mandatory and legislated, but I'm certainly no safer wearing one. NO MATTER WHAT anyone else thinks or tells me.

Just saying...

Best wishes and apologies for being contrarian.

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Treeve

I guess the point of my post is that I've had several questions from several people about what they can 'get away with'. Simply put - I don't want to see people getting hurt, and even those who build with the best intentions can still make mistakes and oversights - I've been wrong on more than one issue, and I treat it as a chance to learn. What would be upsetting is finding out that someone's chance to learn has come at the expense of vehicle damage, personal injury or worse. The engineering schemes in each state are there to protect all road users, not just those of us building cars. Lets not push our luck or take the right to drive cool cars for granted.

Treeve

Sorry mate I was actually 1/2 way through writing my response when I had to put bubs to bed. As such I Missed your follow up post quoted above, to which I agree with wholeheartedly.

[sideshow]

anyone who has two cars can only drive one at a time
and generally its one for work and the other for any other time

all of those people need to have two lots of regos and insurances
so in the end the only extra cost is the engineering

years ago I used to work on many rally cars and the club rego was always a pain in the butt

club rego used to be only for race cars and u could only do a minimum amount of kms a year

[sambo]

Well club rego is different these days sideshow. Under $200 for 90 days worth of driving, sign and date the log book before each outing and you're away. I believe you can now also drive interstate.

[Gav]

Probably the only reason I don't have club rego on mine is resale

I want to drive mine where and when for as long as I like.
(Which is no where near 90 days)

[sideshow]

cool
im wondering if the wife gets a company car one day then ill put her car on club rego
and then just take her sports aurion round qld raceway afew times a year hehehe

[Rob. Smith]

Its a bit disturbing nowadays seeing so many american imports on club plates...one look at them and you can see many after market parts that aren't legal on roads in the USA. I agree with Treeve this "rort" will eventually bring the car enthusiasts down another notch !

[sambo]

Same scenario with fully registered cars - illegally lowered, big wheels, camshafts, neon lights, pod filters, big turbos, etc. Hopefully with club plates there is a little more oversight from fellow club members - everybody stands to lose out if you bring the club into disrepute.

[Zedn]

There will be a whole lot of worthless cars if the scheme is taken away... And it could be at anytime.

[darkside]

stepping away from what were achieving with kits,theres plenty of sh1t tins on the road that shouldnt be and dont stop there why isnt it policed,and why the f@#k havnt they made insurance a law,even if its just to cover the car that u hit,costs next ta nuthin..some of the laws in this country are a joke...ooooh yeah but dont forget every k overs a killer pfffft...jackasses...doc

[Dimis]

Originally Posted by Rob. Smith

Its a bit disturbing nowadays seeing so many american imports on club plates...one look at them and you can see many after market parts that aren't legal on roads in the USA. I agree with Treeve this "rort" will eventually bring the car enthusiasts down another notch !

Sorry mate, I can't agree with your last point.

Clubs surly are held to account with regard what they sign off on.
If "they" "Rort" the system as you suggest, it will only bring heat in them and weed out "bad" clubs.
Can you imagine how a reputable club would respond to offending parties.
They'd boot them out which would renders their club rego useless.

This for mine is a good thing, with regard anything, not just car clubs. It servers to advance and improve things. I believe Darwin called it evolution.

I agree there are those who look for every avenue to abuse any systems, but pointing the finger at club rego does nothing to improve our hobby.
There is nothing wrong with the scheme itself, but more those individuals who chose to misrepresent it, and it's purpose.
No different to the countless who driving fully registered cars that are grossly unroadworthy.
Rob, you're a rubber man no? I'll try to relate to to terms you may best relate too... There are tyres and there are tyres.

Just saying...

[Treeve]

Originally Posted by Dimis

Sorry mate, I can't agree with your last point.

Clubs surly are held to account with regard what they sign off on.
If "they" "Rort" the system as you suggest, it will only bring heat in them and weed out "bad" clubs.
Can you imagine how a reputable club would respond to offending parties.
They'd boot them out which would renders their club rego useless.

This for mine is a good thing, with regard anything, not just car clubs. It servers to advance and improve things. I believe Darwin called it evolution.

I agree there are those who look for every avenue to abuse any systems, but pointing the finger at club rego does nothing to improve our hobby.
There is nothing wrong with the scheme itself, but more those individuals who chose to misrepresent it, and it's purpose.
No different to the countless who driving fully registered cars that are grossly unroadworthy.
Rob, you're a rubber man no? I'll try to relate to to terms you may best relate too... There are tyres and there are tyres.

Just saying...

You only need 8 people to form a club. If your club gets 'booted out' then someone else from your other 7 mates forms a club... and off we go again.

If you honestly believe that 8 random blokes who want to get around the system couldn't possibly exist, then you're deluded. Also, to think that these blokes would make sure their cars were all modified legally also seems to be a bit naive.

It won't root out the bad clubs, the authorities wouldn't be able to completely deal with who runs what clubs. The simplest solution for them is to cancel the club registration scheme - less paperwork all along. Remember the other fun part about dealing with government departments (or people in general with lots of authority and no responsibility): If they can say No to something to make their lives easier they will.

Your comment regarding a helmet making you safer also seems to be a bit blind too - there's figures to prove that helmets save lives. Hopefully the fact that it is legislated means you wear one, and although I hope you don't end up in an accident, if you do I hope it serves to protect you. Then perhaps you will learn the value of one. This comes back to my point about some lessons having to be learnt the hard way. I cracked three teeth before I learnt to wear a helmet.

Treeve

[dadndave]

Interesting topic.
Treeve- those persons who travelled out to Bathurst on a UVP must have had a "pink" slip issued by a registered vehicle inspector, correct? If their cars were unsafe, what 'idiot' mate issued them with one. My son is a registered inspector and he knows that if something goes wrong, he's up sh*t creek well and truly.

Also it's very interesting to see the number of cars blatantly abusing the club rego plates in NSW. The law states that the vehicle can only be used for a club event or if the vehicle is going for service. In my travels around NSW I'm amazed at the number of club events that only have one car in them, eg parked at the beach, in shopping centres, at the pub.
If you want to enjoy your car safely at any time, without getting approval from your club and filling in log books, do the right thing and get it full registration AND INSURANCE.
In NSW it is not possible to obtain club registration for a cobra as the NSW Cobra Car Club is not a recognised club with the RMS. Maybe some other club? may do it, but I've never seen one yet.

[Paintwerks]

I'm happy to fess up and admit that I am one of the 'Vics' that contacted Treeve recently to ask a question about the build of my Cobra. But the question simply was "Do I have to pad the dash?" if I am club registering.

At no point do I intend to build a car that compromises anything when it comes to safety. Re the dash...there are plenty of older cars driving around with painted metal dashboards. As Sambo mentioned, there are significant savings to Club Reg that means I am only paying for the times I use the car (<90 days a year), and that's what attracts me to the scheme.

I'm going with a current gen 2014 fuel injected engine so emissions standards will be met. The car will have all new parts everywhere.... ADR approved seatbelts, tyres, big Brembo brakes, windscreen wipers, demister etc. Also, the fact that I bought a Pace 427 is important as far as safety is concerned as AP have engineered the car to meet (but in most all cases, likely exceed) all relevant Australian standards. The Vic engineer I have talked to is happy with everything Craig has supplied him.

Yes, the car has to be inspected and a RWC obtained, and I will have full comprehensive insurance. And I will have the car's suspension setup by either TruTrack or Centreline....two of the best suspension places in Melbourne.

I guess what I wanted to say is that I am not interested in putting a 'ticking time bomb' onto the road where I stand the chance of injuring myself and/or others. Will I fully register the car first before it goes on Club Reg? Most likely not as I don't feel like paying hard-earned money for something I am not going to be able to fully use and get value from.

But throughout the build I will involve an engineer to make sure everything is properly built and setup.

[Russell9318]

I,m with you Paintwerks, I have a Pace 427 coming to Geelong around March and ditto to every thing you said only I am going Coyote. Too much money and too much pride to stuff it up.

Cheers

Russell

[Russell9318]

Whoa!!! cart befor the horse. Time to introduce myself as a long time reader and second time poster (to read my first post, look above ha ha).
Joined the Cobra Car Club of Victoria in May last year, ordered a Pace 427 at the Nats in Goulburn in October, went on my first club run down to Lorne yesterday riding shotgun for Bernie so it is all go from here on in.
Thanks to the club for all the encouragement and friendship it has offered.
As things get underway I intend to do a build thread and look forward to seeing what other Pace builders are doing.
Until next time

Cheers
Russell

[Dimis]

Paintwerks - I'm with you ^

But there are the over zealous types who believe that not having a dash pad IS a safety hazard!

Originally Posted by Paintwerks

At no point do I intend to build a car that compromises anything when it comes to safety.

They are the same guys who wont issue a 5 star ANCAP safety rating to cars that don't have bells and whistles to tell the driver to put his seat belt on. Oh brother!

They are also the same people who think NOT wearing a helmet while riding a bicycle is a unsafe. I've literally clocked as many km on my bike as I have my car. I've been knocked off my bike more times than I care to count (Luckily, through self preservation, I've avoided countless more silly drivers). Never, I mean categorically never has the helmet helped or taken any impact in any of my spills.

(NOW that I've said that some clown will knock me off and I'll land on my head - people will say... "See I told you so!" Karma for arguing the opposite. haha).


Treeve - I am naive, I don't know how it really works forming a club, but I have seven mates and we can't sign off on it. Don't you have to be affiliated with CAMS and other reputable bodies? Either way, not sure why taking aim at club rego.

There are plenty of larger genuine issues to take aim at regards automotive landscape and safety
The numerous unroadworthy cars that get around,
those who drive uninsured or those who issue bogus RWC certs.
Not to mention the clowns on mobile phones, etc etc...