Control Arms - Heim\Rose\bearing joint or Bush

Tenrocca · #1 (**permalink**) 10-31-2016, 06:19 PM

Planning my next winter tinker, and Im going to replace the ford rear lower control arms with tubular ones. They should save a bit of weight, allow for a bit more adjustment on the camber and allow better positioning of the shock mount compared to stock. Just after some opinions on Bush vs Heim Joints for the inner joints.

deano59 · #2 (**permalink**) 10-31-2016, 08:46 PM

i prefer heim joints prob for no other reason than ive used so many of them at speedway over the yrs. bushers will give you a softer ride as heim joints can be a bit harsh . i think it's more a personal thing i dont think one is better than the other ,,

cheers dean

cycleguy55 · #3 (**permalink**) 11-01-2016, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Planning my next winter tinker, and Im going to replace the ford rear lower control arms with tubular ones. They should save a bit of weight, allow for a bit more adjustment on the camber and allow better positioning of the shock mount compared to stock. Just after some opinions on Bush vs Heim Joints for the inner joints.

I don't know if these will work on your car, but one of the West Coast Cobra owners just replaced his arms with some from Spohn. Here's a link to his post and photos in the thread: Club Cobra - upper and lower rear trailing arms

Spohn's page on these: Rear Suspension Control Arms | 1972-1976 Ford Torino & Ranchero

An article on Spohn's Del-Sphere pivot joints used in their UCAs and LCAs, also comparing them to other materials. The video on this page shows how they're assembled and adjustable, as well as how they provide 28° of movement - 6° more than offered by spherical rod ends: What is a Del-Sphere pivot joint? :: Spohn Performance | Support Center

Aussie Mike · #4 (**permalink**) 11-01-2016, 04:47 PM

I have been looking at making a set using these rebuildable units.

http://www.emfrodends.com/EMF-ROD-EN...-p/ehs0.75.htm

Looking at making some CNC billet front and rear lower control arms for my CR at some point.

I've had requests for arms in the past but they are a fair bit of work to make in 4130 tube. One of my concerns about making them for others and why I have refused is engineering compliance. While I'm confident in my own welding and design I'd worry about supplying the parts to someone else. There are a lot of variables. Once a CNC program is written however it should be straightforward to make consistent accurate arms that I can get an engineer to sign off.

Cheers

cycleguy55 · #5 (**permalink**) 11-02-2016, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

I have been looking at making a set using these rebuildable units.

EMF Rod End, Small 3/4" Shank Heim Joint

Looking at making some CNC billet front and rear lower control arms for my CR at some point.

I've had requests for arms in the past but they are a fair bit of work to make in 4130 tube. One of my concerns about making them for others and why I have refused is engineering compliance. While I'm confident in my own welding and design I'd worry about supplying the parts to someone else. There are a lot of variables. Once a CNC program is written however it should be straightforward to make consistent accurate arms that I can get an engineer to sign off.

Cheers

While there are minor differences between EMF and Spohn rod ends / pivot joints (e.g. Spohn has machined slots on the lock ring for the set screw, while EMF requires you to drill the lock ring) EMF rod ends and Spohn Del-Sphere pivot joints are very similar in concept and execution. Both seem to be excellent products for use in control arms.

Tom Wells · #6 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 05:05 AM

Ten,

I looked and could not decide how you are using your suspension. I think the bushings vs Heims decision depends on what you plan to do with the car.

I see a racer (above) says Heims. I'd agree.

I'm a street/track day user, so I go for bushings.

I'll give some generalities about why:

Bushings require no maintenance if they are original equipment quality or better. They don't corrode. There are stiffer ones available for some applications for a bit more precision in locating the articulated arms. Stay away from the red ones - they tend to squeak after a number of miles.

Heims require frequent inspections, lube and replacement. There are some shields available to retain lube better, and to resist intrusion of unwelcome liquids such as road water and salts.

Heims locate the moving parts much more precisely than bushings; good for track usage.

Bushings are quieter in operation and more shock load resistant.

See a pattern here?

Hope this helps,

Tom

Tenrocca · #7 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 05:25 PM

Thanks for all your inputs. All things considered Ive decided to go heim joints. Order 6 chromoly jobs and threaded inserts to do the pair (M16x1.5mm Right Hand Male - Ultra High Performance Rod End). Brexit helped with the price.

All up with the steel it should work out cheaper than replacing all the stock bushes and bearings and save me 20kg in the process.

Cheers

Gav · #8 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 05:35 PM

You will make up for your tank straps then?

Aussie Mike · #9 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenrocca

Thanks for all your inputs. All things considered Ive decided to go heim joints. Order 6 chromoly jobs and threaded inserts to do the pair (M16x1.5mm Right Hand Male - Ultra High Performance Rod End). Brexit helped with the price.

All up with the steel it should work out cheaper than replacing all the stock bushes and bearings and save me 20kg in the process.

Cheers

That's actually a QA1 XM series chrome molly rod end. They are the ones I used on my fabricated arms however I used imperial ones. 3/4" for the top pivot and a super heavy duty 7/8" shank with a 3/4" ball for the lower.

I machined my own inserts.

I used urethane bushes on the chassis end of my arms and rod ends on the outside. This was a compromise for stiffness/ride quality. Also at the time when I spoke to engineers there was some question about whether all heim jointed was legal on the road so this was the safer option.

Cheers

Tenrocca · #10 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 08:01 PM

I figured AP use them everywhere. These will just be for track use of course.

Aussie Mike · #11 (**permalink**) 11-03-2016, 08:08 PM

I reckon the rules must have been relaxed at some point in the past. Probably an approved production car somewhere with heim joints used as an example.

Cheers

deano59 · #12 (**permalink**) 11-04-2016, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aussie Mike

I reckon the rules must have been relaxed at some point in the past. Probably an approved production car somewhere with heim joints used as an example.

Cheers

i had two heim joints on my jag rear end holding the rods from the diff to the chassis all that was said back then 19809's was they had to have a rubber boot over them . you couldnt buy the boots back then so i used some rubbers off some tie rod ends i had lying around. the engineer was happy with that ..