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Kirkham Motorsports

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Old 09-12-2018, 04:14 AM
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Default Crate engines

Hi all, The 302 Cleveland I have in my cobra is quite worn out and tired so it needs a refresh. Rebuilding seems like it will be the most expensive option and my mechanic said that he would get a 351 Cleveland crate engine.
My question to all is what is the best place to get a crate engine?somehwere in NSW would be preferred but anywhere is ok.
I have a budget of around $5k
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Old 09-12-2018, 05:42 AM
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Pavtek builds nice stuff (Victoria) not sure about the price though .
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Old 09-13-2018, 07:39 PM
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I know nothing about your local laws and how that might impact costs, but it is hard to understand how someone can build a new or rebuild a junkyard core engine for less money than rebuilding your engine.
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Old 09-14-2018, 09:35 AM
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I have to confess that it has been a few years since I priced up the reconditioning of my first Windsor - but I was really surprised to read that just freshening up your engine would be the most expensive option.

If you're wanting just a freshen up I would have thought that reconditioning your existing engine seemed likely to be the best option cost wise.

Maybe you could share some of the costs you anticipate or your pricing comparisons

The local fordforums.com.au has a couple of threads about engine builders in Newcastle.

Naturally I then had to have a look around, very few places put prices on the builds but about the best listed prices I found were here:

Port City Engines - Ford 351C HP1 Engine

Don't know anything about them.

this looked interesting (!)

Good luck .

LoBelly
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonw66 View Post
Hi all, The 302 Cleveland I have in my cobra is quite worn out and tired so it needs a refresh. Rebuilding seems like it will be the most expensive option and my mechanic said that he would get a 351 Cleveland crate engine.
My question to all is what is the best place to get a crate engine?somehwere in NSW would be preferred but anywhere is ok.
I have a budget of around $5k
I notice you said 302 Cleveland. Dang I used to trust my memory, but that gets me into trouble. I believe that down under, Ford de-stroked the 351 C to make a 302. Sounds like that is what you have. All you should have to do is drop a 351 C rotating assembly into your block and you would have a 351 C. But why stop their? For the same money I believe you can stroke a C out to about 400 cubic inches, give or take. In the US that would run about $1200 - $1500. That would include rings and bearings. You would need a gasket set.

If you have good heads now, maybe a valve job, and seals. New guides at worst. If not, you have local access to some of the best heads in the world. I think CHI, hope that is right.

I hope this is useful to you.

BTW in the US you are not going to get much power for a $5K crate engine.

Last edited by olddog; 09-14-2018 at 02:02 PM..
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Old 09-14-2018, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by olddog View Post
I notice you said 302 Cleveland. Dang I used to trust my memory, but that gets me into trouble. I believe that down under, Ford de-stroked the 351 C to make a 302. Sounds like that is what you have. All you should have to do is drop a 351 C rotating assembly into your block and you would have a 351 C. But why stop their? For the same money I believe you can stroke a C out to about 400 cubic inches, give or take. In the US that would run about $1200 - $1500. That would include rings and bearings. You would need a gasket set.

If you have good heads now, maybe a valve job, and seals. New guides at worst. If not, you have local access to some of the best heads in the world. I think CCI, hope that is right.

I hope this is useful to you.

BTW in the US you are not going to get much power for a $5K crate engine.

Interesting thread here on converting a 302C to a 351C:

https://www.aussiev8.com.au/ford-v8s...cleveland.html


"...you can convert a 302 to a 351 very simply. The blocks are the same. The only thing you really need to change is the crank and rods if you want but the rods are not necessary. We have a special pin height piston which uses the 302 rod with the 351 crank and so may save you a few bucks there."
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Old 09-15-2018, 07:09 AM
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Your budget wont get you far, but I would speak to Ned at Hercules Engines in Sydney.

Old school guy with lots of experience.
Ben
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Old 09-15-2018, 09:06 AM
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I said that for the same money you could stroke it on out to near 400 cid. That assumes you are buying a complete rotating assembly.

If you can locate a good used 351C crank, it shouldn't cost much. A set of the pistons with the modified wrist pin location, assuming you're rods are good, and you can stroke your engine to 351, and save a bunch of money over an entire rotating assembly. So this would save likely $500. Price a set of rods and maybe subtract the cost of reconditioning your rods and upgrading to ARP bolts.

Even if all you have is factory heads, the Cleveland head is a decent head. With the right cam 260 Kw should be fairly easy to make (at the crank). I'm sure more is possible.
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Old 09-15-2018, 05:17 PM
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5k will buy a lot of LS.

Just sayin’
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Old 09-15-2018, 11:44 PM
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Yes but living with the associated stigma that goes with it is a cost most aren’t prepared to bear! :-)
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Old 09-16-2018, 01:03 AM
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Yeah, probably too powerful too.
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Old 09-16-2018, 03:10 AM
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A powerful stigma
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Old 09-17-2018, 02:38 PM
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Default Crate engines

Thanks for all the advice so far......how about this for a package?.??
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/351-Ford...8AAOSwWSZaq5af

Package looks nice and the price is pretty good.
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Old 09-17-2018, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasonw66 View Post
Thanks for all the advice so far......how about this for a package?.??
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/351-Ford...8AAOSwWSZaq5af

Package looks nice and the price is pretty good.

From the ad:

"This engine is an excellent street combo that should produce around 300 HP.

"Engine will supplied as pictured with a C10 flex plate."



Very basic street engine - okay as long as you're not looking for more than 300 HP.


Are you running a manual or auto transmission? If the former, the flex plate is of no value.
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:49 PM
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I'd change mechanics!

A question for you is...who is doing all the work? I can see a mechanic charging you $5k just to pull it, strip it down etc etc and re-install! Plus the extras of "Öh i didnt allow for that or that or that!

For me.... for simplicity...and best bang for buck and you know what you're getting..

Pull engine yourself. (Crane/mates, few beers) Take you 2 hours tops.

Strip engine yourself. (as above)

Send to a reputable ford builder.

Reverse as per above.

Take to dyno for final tune (3 hours)

No issues with engine numbers, engine mounts, plumbing, electrical, computer bla bla bla. All parts fit.

Very satisfying when you do yourself, you save a heap and you learn even more!
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Old 09-18-2018, 06:52 PM
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Plus you put the 351 in it and then nothing just simply fits up to your existing 302 ancillaries and then you start spending $'s on suspension cause the boat anchor is heavier than the other boat anchor etc etc. Chase the issues down a never ending hole.....
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Old 09-18-2018, 07:16 PM
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If you want a builder that knows Cleveland’s then Mick Webb in Melbourne is definitely a good choice.
He built a budget 351 for me years ago that was smooth and made great horsepower for the time.
Still going hard today after 12+ years.
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Last edited by kyleb; 09-18-2018 at 07:18 PM..
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