V-Belts

Merv and Sharon · #1 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 04:51 AM

For those of you who have removed the serpentine belt setup on their Ford 5.0L/302/351 motor - removing power steering, AC, smog pumps, etc., and fitted a simple V-belt, I have a question. How did you set up your pulleys?

In particular, did you use grooved pulleys or smooth faced pulleys? For example, my original crankshaft pulley is grooved, as is the alternator pulley. However, the water pump pulley is smooth. This creates a problem with the selection of a suitable belt. A grooved belt may slip on the water pump pulley (I suspect so anyway). However, I cannot see where I could get grooved water pump pulley to fit the Ford water pump. Any suggestions or photos would be valuable.

I have a Gilmer drive setup, but I am worried about the long term impact of that on the alternator bearings, even with appropriate tension.

Merv

07cob · #2 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 03:55 PM

Merv

I did some looking around for a similar setup and also had difficulty finding a ribbed water pump pulley. Eventually, I dug this up from the March website and subsequently found the two sets for sale on the Summit site.

March Catalog
http://www.marchperf.com/pg35.html

Underdrive crank
http://www.summitracing.com/search/?...y%201670&dds=1

Standard drive crank
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCH-1675/

These both rely on using the standard drive water pump.

Let me know if you look like ordering a set as I have been thinking of doing this for a while and we might be able to share the postage.

Cheers

Geof

Merv and Sharon · #3 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 04:57 PM

Thanks Geof. These look good. The one at: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCH-1675/ looks best for me I think. I did not want to use the 'old' Mustang tensioner as I have a billet adjustable one for that.

I am assuming that the smooth water pump pulley would indeed slip with the grooved belt. It may not of course.

At any rate happy to share the postage!

Are you happy for me to order these?

Merv

Merv and Sharon · #4 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 05:02 PM

Geof,

This one also looks cheaper and seems the same: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MCH-1670/

Which one do you think? My water pump is clockwise rotation (as for the crank pulley/standard) as I recall.

Merv

Philm · #5 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 05:16 PM

Geat looking stuff.

Be sure to check the rotation of the water pump, most last model 5lrs have them running in reverse.

A goo way to check is if the pump pully is smooth and the back of the serpentine belt contacted the pulley then it is a reverse pump.

You will need to change the timing cover as well as the pump if you go this way.

Phil

07cob · #6 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 05:49 PM

Merv

I would suggest that the plain (non-ribbed) water pump pulley on a standard rotation water pump would be highly ineffective. Unless there was more than 50% contact and a load of tension, I would think it would slip regularly.

The two versions (March product numbers 1670 and 1675) have different diameter crankshaft pulleys. 1675 (the dearer one) is the standard size, while the 1670 version has a smaller crankshaft pulley which will underdrive the waterpump and alternator and subsequently provide about 3 million extra horsepower. My preference is the standard drive.

I will also ditch the old tensioner and will need to look at a tensioner arrangement.

Phil

As it turns out, for different reasons both Merv and I have two water pumps - one in each version - standard and reverse rotation.

Interestingly, I replaced my timing cover recently and the engine was fitted with a standard rotation timing cover with the reverse rotation pump. The plate at the back of the pump stopped water pouring out everywhere and it all seemed to work OK. Looking at it closely, I could see that the water would be somewhat restricted passing through the timing cover, but it wasn't enough to worry. Regardless, I replaced the equipment as it was as the cooling is fine. Looks now like I might use the standard pump with some fancy pulleys.

Cheers

Geof

Merv and Sharon · #7 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 06:02 PM

Thanks Phil. I did change my water pump to standard rotation, and fitted a Gilmer set up. This works fine but I am worried about the longer term impact of that on the alternator bearings and its balance. I would rather have a standard V-belt drive at this stage. I could get the original water pump pulley grooved by a machine shop, but the billet ally ones look nice!

Merv

steeler · #8 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Thanks Phil. I did change my water pump to standard rotation, and fitted a Gilmer set up. This works fine but I am worried about the longer term impact of that on the alternator bearings and its balance. I would rather have a standard V-belt drive at this stage. I could get the original water pump pulley grooved by a machine shop, but the billet ally ones look nice!

Merv

Hi Merv
My 302 has had a Glimer drive set up for 7 years, no problems yet.

Rgds
Terry.

Merv and Sharon · #9 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 07:40 PM

Thanks Terry. The Gilmer does sound great!

Geof - do you want me to order 2 of the 1675 (the dearer one)? I can call them on Skype tomorrow.

Merv

hogster · #10 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 08:57 PM

I got mine from Summit - Ford Racing parts

Standard belt - no grooves

Cheers

Hogster

07cob · #11 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

Thanks Terry. The Gilmer does sound great!

Geof - do you want me to order 2 of the 1675 (the dearer one)? I can call them on Skype tomorrow.

Merv

Merv

Sounds like a good idea. I will just have a look at the Summit site tonight and let you know in detail. I need to look at a bracket for the alternator as well. What did you use for this? Summit might have something good.

Cheers

Geof

Merv and Sharon · #12 (**permalink**) 07-12-2009, 10:32 PM

OK Geof. I have a bracket for the alternator and a tensioner. The pic below shows the small bracket I made to fit it to the tensioner high on the driver's side:

This older pic shows the bracket and tensioner before I remounted the Alternator high (as above; reason being it fouled the steering rack!).

Merv

07cob · #13 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 04:40 AM

Merv

I am guessing this will be a tough question to answer unless you actually tried it, but do you reckon the bracket you have for your alternator would work on the passenger side? I would prefer to keep the driver's side clear for air intake.

Either way, I am thinking about picking up one of these as well: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SU...4/?image=large

Any other ideas for mounting the alternator on the passenger side of a 302? Obviously, one could fabricate a bracket to suit but I am thinking of the easy way first (if possible!).

Cheers

Geof

Merv and Sharon · #14 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 05:49 AM

That one in the URL is the same as they one I have. Except, I made another bracket/fitting at the top as the one supplied was just too short for my set up. I tried to do it on the other side but could not manage it. I have dozens of pics archived and they are all on the driver's side, except for the one below. (It may be Aussie Mike's work?).

These pulleys look good:

Merv

LoBelly · #15 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 08:58 AM

Its not that hard to make up a bracket

I think this one (mine) is just 4mm plate aluminium - you can - reputedly - cut it using woodworking tools (!)

Couple of spacers and you can put the alternator anywhere you like (almost).
Perfect if you're going for that 'I've run out money...' look

LoBelly

07cob · #16 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

I tried to do it on the other side but could not manage it.

Perfect Merv – that is exactly what I was hoping to find out. That being the case, I will just stick to the pulleys and fabricate up something for the alt bracket. I’ll send you an eMail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merv and Sharon

These pulleys look good:

These look just like the March ones – with the ribbed water pump pulley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBelly

Its not that hard to make up a bracket
I think this one (mine) is just 4mm plate aluminium - you can - reputedly - cut it using woodworking tools (!)

LoBelly

Sounds like a plan – will an electric plane do??!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoBelly

Couple of spacers and you can put the alternator anywhere you like (almost).
Perfect if you're going for that 'I've run out money...' look

LoBelly

I reckon that is more the 'Don’t get in my way' look – very nice!!

Cheers

Geof

Merv and Sharon · #17 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 02:55 PM

OK Geof - let me know if that is what you want and I will call them this morning and make an order.

Cheers,

Merv

Merv and Sharon · #18 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 04:05 PM

US/Summit ones are very expensive when freight is included and not good value. Ford Racing here maybe a better bet.

Merv

LoBelly · #19 (**permalink**) 07-13-2009, 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 07cob

...Sounds like a plan – will an electric plane do??!!
...

As it happens I have watched in horror as my brother did just this on the edge of some plate alloy - with MY electric plane that he'd asked to borrow

No damage done as far as I could tell - not that it would matter because I dont recall getting the plane back...

LoBelly

Mando · #20 (**permalink**) 07-14-2009, 07:15 AM

Geof/Merv I used the alternator bracket you linked to Summit Racing on my car. I thought it was supposed to go on the passenger side so with the aid of a small bracket, thats where it was installed. If your interested you can see it in my gallery.
Merv, why are you getting rid of the gilmer pulleys if you like the look of them?

Regards.