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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-30-2019, 02:40 PM
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Default 427W FI or Coyote or Supercharged Coyote

Anybody with experience want to comment or compare from an ownership/driving point of view?

I’m considering the above. Looking to drive frequently rather than wrench frequently. Roads, no track planned. I have experience with supercharged coyote but only in a much heavier car (Mustang). Is a supercharged Coyote too much HP to enjoy driving? I seem to recall Cashburn saying maybe half of supercharged Coyotes Cobras end up in a ditch? But then I’ve seen several posters on here say they love their Coyote but wish it had more power (torque?).

Thanks for any insight/opinion, even those with the inevitable “you can’t have too much horsepower” and “it’s not a ‘real’ replica without a 427FE.”
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:47 PM
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Here is a good place to start your research => Engine Choices

Ed


p.s. don't be bashful about using the search function. There is lots already posted on this topic.
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Old 04-30-2019, 02:48 PM
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The Coyote is quite wide, so make sure it will fit in your car.

Cobras with modern engines as opposed to period correct engines are hard to sell. People here still think a Cobra should vibrate like hell and stink of gas to high heaven.
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Old 04-30-2019, 05:11 PM
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I'm not certain a modern engine is all that hard to sell. Even the guys with Chevy engines sell them. Sure a smaller group of people looking for one, but they still sell.

In the future, all of us who remember what an FE engine was like to own in the 1960's, will be dead. Those kids with a fart can on a Honda Civic will be looking to buy something nostalgic, to them, but all those fancy high tech beer cans, they lusted for while growing up, will have long since been recycled. They might appreciate a Cobra with a Coyote engine in it. I know, I know, this is all BS, because the planet will be uninhabitable in another couple decades precisely because these cars existed.

The modular engine was fairly reliable. Other than the spark plug and exhaust manifold crap. The Coyote is the next generation that you can clearly see the Modular DNA in it. However they keep adding more complexity to it. The variable cam timing alone concerns me on longevity. This engine certainly has much more to potentially go wrong with it.

How long will Ford continue to make this engine? I think it is pretty much a Mustang GT item. At least the Modular was going into a bunch of cars and trucks in several variations. Ford is heavily invested in small displacement high Hp turbo engines. I don't see that changing any time soon.

The 5.0 Windsor has been out of production a long long time. Yet it is so much a simpler and reliable design. The 351 W is pretty much the same. I see these small blocks as having evolved to the top, when it comes to reliability by simplicity. The new stuff is very well designed and reliable, but it is difficult and costly to fix. A lot to go wrong on them too.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:33 PM
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A good 427W stroker a blown 5.0 will give you about the same HP and torque numbers. But the 427 tends to be more linear. The blower tends to "come on", so to speak, at a certain point. A bit more dramatic.

the NA Coyote makes less power than the other two, by quite a lot. But it's extremely predictable and easy to drive.

Whichever motor you choose, install EFI right in the beginning. I'll never mess with a carb gain.
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:37 PM
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A good 427W stroker a blown 5.0 will give you about the same HP and torque numbers. But the 427 tends to be more linear. The blower tends to "come on", so to speak, at a certain point. A bit more dramatic.

the NA Coyote makes less power than the other two, by quite a lot. But it's extremely predictable and easy to drive.

Whichever motor you choose, install EFI right in the beginning. I'll never mess with a carb gain.
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Old 05-01-2019, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
A good 427W stroker a blown 5.0 will give you about the same HP and torque numbers. But the 427 tends to be more linear. The blower tends to "come on", so to speak, at a certain point. A bit more dramatic.

the NA Coyote makes less power than the other two, by quite a lot. But it's extremely predictable and easy to drive.

Whichever motor you choose, install EFI right in the beginning. I'll never mess with a carb gain.
Bobcowan's viewpoint is in sync with mine.
A 427W FI crate engine will produce a predictable push to 575HP at 6500 which is plenty for these cars.
In addition, there's less complexity to contend with when it's time to wrench.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:28 AM
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427 W w/dual plane manifold is my choice for the street (I considered 427 W and Coyote not supercharged. It is reliable, no wrenching. I'm in about 16 K, including EFI. I ended up going EFI due to cam, vacuum, carb low end drivability issues. It makes great low end torque, 582, and max hp 572. Victor jr manifold will make more high end hp, but will sacrifice the bottom end, doing so.
The Coyote is significantly larger, but 100 pounds lighter. The Coyote tracks and autocrosses very well. 690-720 hp, SAFELY, on pump gas with a supercharger for about 20K complete.
My opinion, if I were going racing, I would consider the Coyote with a dry sump, for the street, big inch thump.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:12 AM
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This setup without the nitrous is spectacular on the street (artwork not required): IMG_8081 | \\VINTAGE MOTORSPORTS

It's a 438W with Holley Hi-Ram EFI setup.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:16 AM
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Whenever I see 'widow maker' I think of this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1r3tWORrvs8


Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashburn View Post
This setup without the nitrous is spectacular on the street (artwork not required): IMG_8081 | \\VINTAGE MOTORSPORTS

It's a 438W with Holley Hi-Ram EFI setup.
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:13 AM
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUtXouuxH9w
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashburn View Post
As per the comment in video regarding the cobra... its ALL about the engine.

So which ONE sings out to you?

My vote is 427fe from a nostalgic standpoint, but I'm NOT opposed your options or even electric or whatever... but what do YOU want to see?

Good luck and enjoy
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
A good 427W stroker a blown 5.0 will give you about the same HP and torque numbers. But the 427 tends to be more linear. The blower tends to "come on", so to speak, at a certain point. A bit more dramatic.

the NA Coyote makes less power than the other two, by quite a lot. But it's extremely predictable and easy to drive.

Whichever motor you choose, install EFI right in the beginning. I'll never mess with a carb gain.

You're the exact person I would like an opinion from, a person who has a supercharged Coyote. How is it to drive?
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Old 05-02-2019, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
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You're the exact person I would like an opinion from, a person who has a supercharged Coyote. How is it to drive?
It is a blast! I love to drive this car. It is smooth and responsive, with good power everywhere. It does "come on" when the boost really comes up, the car takes off, and presses you back in to the seat. The first couple of times I drove it, it was kind of scary.

BUT... you do have to be careful. You can't just stomp on the gas. If you do that it will just boil the tires. You have to roll into the throttle.

You also have to be careful about passing. Step on the gas move over, pass, move back. Look down, and you're in the triple digits. It's that fast and smooth.

I also have a 6 speed auto trans. It is so smooth, you don't even notice the up shifts.

"If you have the means, I strongly suggest you acquire one".
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Old 05-03-2019, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobcowan View Post
It is a blast!
I agree with Bob, a supercharged coyote powered Cobra is the definition of a "blast". As I mentioned in my reply PM, that engine/power adder combo is scalable through use of different sized pulleys and the tune. You don't need to go straight to 800rwhp right from the start. As you get used to the power, you can increase boost and adjust the tune to get to whatever power level you feel most comfortable with.

Happy to answer any other questions you may have.

No matter what direction you go, get what you want and have a blast through the process.

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Old 05-03-2019, 08:06 AM
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I was not going to say anything so I won"t Other than 427w stroker !
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Old 05-25-2020, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cashburn View Post
This setup without the nitrous is spectacular on the street (artwork not required): IMG_8081 | \\VINTAGE MOTORSPORTS

It's a 438W with Holley Hi-Ram EFI setup.
Jay, that intake setup is great looking. Does this specific intake offer an upgrade over a throttle body EFI or a victor series with port injection given the 438ci stroker build
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Old 05-25-2020, 09:54 PM
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the coyote is a decades better design, literally. More expensive and harder to work on (try a cam change). It doesn't take much to get them into the 1000hp range. They need a blower though.

NA the Windsor is a lot easier and cheaper to run. It looks more old school I guess. I've run lots of Windsors as 351's. I like them but the cranks are a bit too heavy. Crate engine 427's regularly hitting 600 hp, so there's more on the table for sure.

as for the supercharged coyote coming on strong....yes...thats a good thing right? I did not have any issue running over 700 to the wheels in a 03 terminator mustang and it drove as easy as my wife's Avalon... except the little mustang could break the tires lose at 100...which was a plus.
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Old 05-27-2020, 10:52 AM
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I have a built 438"W in my Unique cobra. All aluminum, callies magnum crank, P38 heads, etc. I absolutely love it. My everyday is a Roush supercharged coyote in an '18 regular cab F150, tuned, 700+ hp. I love that too.

As much as I love both engines, in my opinion, they are both in the correct vehicle; I don't think I would want either vehicle if the engines were swapped. The rough 438 would be a no go in nearly any other vehicle, but for me, it is uniquely suited to the period character of what I want a cobra to be. The blown coyote is smooth with awesome power, suited for a/c, power steering, abs, etc. There if you need it, relatively hidden if you don't.
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Old 05-27-2020, 09:02 PM
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Quote:
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I have a built 438"W in my Unique cobra. All aluminum, callies magnum crank, P38 heads, etc. I absolutely love it. My everyday is a Roush supercharged coyote in an '18 regular cab F150, tuned, 700+ hp. I love that too.

As much as I love both engines, in my opinion, they are both in the correct vehicle; I don't think I would want either vehicle if the engines were swapped. The rough 438 would be a no go in nearly any other vehicle, but for me, it is uniquely suited to the period character of what I want a cobra to be. The blown coyote is smooth with awesome power, suited for a/c, power steering, abs, etc. There if you need it, relatively hidden if you don't.
Sounds like a great build. Aren’t the P38 the Kaase heads? If so I hardly ever come across a thread where someone used those in their build. What kind of power did it make?

That Kaase crew puts out some great stuff. Their former employee Greg Brown broke off and is offering his own Hemi style windsor head. I don’t know much about the product but it looked promising.

Last edited by Ace23; 05-27-2020 at 09:09 PM..
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