Backdraft beats SHELBY Cobra in Vegas at FFR Western Roundup

[Bart Carter]

Originally posted by moneymanager ...I ran in HDPE Group 1 just for fun and didn't have a transponder. I had no idea my car would have run that fast otherwise I might have rented one just to check the times.

So this would be true:

Originally posted by Bart Carter ... You surely can't claim to be the fastest by passing all the beginners in the new-to-the-track Cobra only instruction group...

And this is not true:

Originally posted by moneymanager ...my car
out ran and out handled EVERY other Cobra on the track Saturday...

I don't think the Western Roundup guys (FFR owners) that invited you to the event and were so cordial would appreciate the inaccurate account that was given in your first post. You were not the fastest Cobra Saturday. You were maybe the fastest in the beginner Cobra group and probably the only one on slicks.

My hat is off to the FFR guys for inviting all Cobra owners to participate and make them feel welcome. This was not a competition and they didn't make it one.

[moneymanager]

I didn't mean to start any arguments by my original post, as I have said I merely wanted to point out that the Backdraft handled great. I apologize for not detailing my runs to everyone's satisfaction. I truly enjoyed the time in Vegas with all the FFR owners and as well as the other Cobra owners. The fine people I met are a great bunch and we all a good time.

I guess I should have known better than to even mention it, as I feared it would start a controversy.

I 'm no pro driver by any means and don't have near the track time as some but I did SCCA and NASA race both my 86 and 95 Corvettes for 2 years and have lots of plastic trophies for the efforts.

My show room stock BDR out pulls and outhandles the best Vette I have ever drove! Hands down! Including my best friends Grand Sport (which for those of you who aren't in the know- is the Ultimate Vette for Autocrossing). Hopefully my reference to Vette's won't offend anyone.

Doc

[grumpy]

moneymanager,

This BDR promo has went on for more pages than I would have thought.

You can see thru this quicker than you can see Jimmy Johnson beating Mark Martin last weekend in IDENTICALLLY prepared cars, give us your reason on that one.

Oh. I forgot, it's a chevy and it's supposed to beat fords won't work in that case either.

You are going to continue actually claiming it is a "stock" BDR with a identical HP motyor to the CSX car, as Stossel says "gimmee a break"!

Jeff,

was at grumpys returning a lift and just couldn't help responding!

and grumps still chuckling.

[coyled]

The BDR is no doubt a nice handling cobra. But, so is an SPF, CSX, FFR, JBL and others. If you put a 400hp motor, 17 inch slicks and decent brakes on any brand, it will do really well in HPDE 1 against street tired lower hp cobra's. HPDE 1 is a beginer group. The cars get much faster in HPDE 2, faster in 3, faster in 4, and faster in the Time trial group. Bart Carter in an FFR cobra was in the time trial group and won first with a 2:03. The race group, mostly stock cars ran a fast lap at 1:50 but most were in the 1:53 area. The beginner group was probably in the 2:15 area. Trust me, Gary patterson in any csx cobra with slicks in Las vegas, would beat almost any similarly equiped cobra with a club driver. I own a BMW and I am well aware of how well they handle. Transfering the suspension to a different wheel base car of a different weight does not mean that it will handle better than a tranferred jaguar or mustang suspension. Its all about set up, not the brand of suspension. FFR gets blasted for there donor concept but I can tell you that at Willow springs and Road america, the FFR cobra is always the fastest or one of the fastest cobra's. I don't own an FFR, I own a hi-tech which is no better or worse than any other brand. I am very interested in being on the track with a BDR so I can see for myself how well they handle. Scott

[Excaliber]

Doc, thanks for the clarification on the specs. 130-140 is quite realistic with an over drive trans and your rear gear. Well done, I know there are only a few of us who would take our Cobras into that rare realm of 130 plus (135 for me, ).

The definition of the word "stock" has become over used, especially at it applies to the BDR's in general, not just your car, which I would not consider "stock". "Near stock", I'll give you that! More important to me, the suspension your running sounds "stock", and THAT part is significant.

"Stock" means: You go down to the BDR dealer and purchase the base unit as typically advertised for the price that is typically quoted. $4000 for a "sport suspension" up-grade does not make for a "stock" car in my opinion.

That "typical" BDR, in my opinion, would have the 80/20 rear gear (one legger?), a standard trans (no over drive), no brake up-grade, "stock" suspension and powered by perhaps a "healthy" 302.

The Run and Gun car with the rear wing and front air dam has also been referred to as "stock". Well,,,, to say the least, it sure didn't "look" stock. It did, in fact, look VERY much like a "ringer" and NOT like a "Cobra". So the word "stock", as it applies to BDR's leaves me scratching my head......

[moneymanager]

My car does NOT have any upgrades it's just the plain everyday 325 suspension that they put on all base model BDR's. I did change the rotors and pads but that's it.

My motor is NOT a ROUSH or DART stroker, it is a 392 stroker from Ford. A crate motor. So I refer to that as kinda stock.

As you say it's all in what you consider stock. Which I feel my BDR is pretty much a run of the mill daily driver BDR. The trany is a stock Tremec 3550 not a TKO and not a 6 speed. It too is a basic trany that most anyone doing this type of car might use. Nothing more.

I totally agree that the BDR prepared for Run and Gun is a killer car built specifically to race at Run N Gun and once they get it sorted out it should kick some butt. But it is about as far from stock as you could possibly imagine. Not your daily driver type by any means.

Thanks for your comments and input.

Doc

[Cobra75]

Geez....can we get this thread locked!

So Doc "exaggerated" his performance and got called out by the the truth seekers. Let it end here please!

BTW, I drove the yellow CSX and there is no way that tired out 302 could keep up with a new 392 stroker in the straights. Gary of course could probably kick all of our asses in the corners regardless of what he drove.

[Gary Morris]

I just spoke with Gary Patterson and he has had some good chuckles from this thread. He was glad that everyone had a good time.....as remember one of Gary's titles is "Director of Fun"

Gary

[ItBites]

I think Doc hasn't been too exagerative... His title states his BDR outran a Shelby. Apparently the Shelby was in the same group, driving on the same track, on the same day. I would consider his BDR stock, considering a crate Ford motor - and the motor isn't huge by any means. And about the brakes - I know Hal Baer of BAER brakes and in my conversations with him, rotors of the same diameter are not a big improvement in stopping distance, more in the area of reducing fade in repeated stops (so unless the Shelby was experiencing brake fade this is not really a big deal). Tires: well here again, the hoosiers Doc runs are DOT tires, not slicks. They do work really well, but I can tell you anyone not running sticky tires in a track event should be... It is flat dangerous not to. Even a stock car, when running on a track, should use track tires - period - thats why they make them.
Additionally, we all know that a small motored car isn't disadvantaged at all in the corners. Apparently Doc was stacking up behind folks in the corners. Even on straights, if the small motored car exits the last corner going faster and/or on a better line, it can and will achieve the same top speed (provided the straight is not particularly long) and have a better time down the total straight.
Any car can outrun any other car on a given day. I think Doc is saying: on this day, on this track, in this group, I outran the Shelby car. Why is this so offensive to so many of you? Sour grapes I think... Good for Doc. Hope you had a great time.

Think about it. If a car breaks in a race (maybe it is the fastest car in the world) and DNFs: Does the winner walk over and hand the trophy to the driver of the broken car or does he celebrate the fact that on that day, his and his team's overall performance was a winning one?



BTW, the last time I was at PIR here, I outran a McLaren F1. That doesn't mean the McLaren isn't capable of outrunning me. But on that track, on that day I smoked him. We were both in the same Beginners group. We both had the same opportunity to go as fast as we could - and I ran faster. What do you wanna say about that? I suspect I'll get a lot of "well, if..." BS, but guess what, reality isn't about "well, if..." I was there, and I went past that McLaren F1 like it was standing still and I'm still smilin'

Have a nice day.

[coyled]

E wood, the difference is your thread topic did not say "midstates cobra beats Mclaren" and go on to say that the Mclaren has a known great driver driving. Doc has experience racing for a few years in scca, he was in a beginer group with mostly street tire guys, and he had dot tires which are a hair below slicks as far as traction but worlds above the 15 inch bfg's most guys run. This is not sour grapes, its just callin it what it is. Good for Doc, I am happy for him, I wish I was there to share in the fun. Scott

[Maricopa]

The Backdraft is a very nice car, and with it's longer wheelbase and wider track than a standard Cobra it should be a very good handling car. MM is right to be proud of it, but it sounds like he didn't realize that not everyone on the track was 'racing'. Jeff Cooper, the writer and firearms guru tells the story about his first amateur racing experience. He took to the track (pre-race) and soon found himself flying past the other cars. He thought at the time that he must be some sort of driving prodigy, only to soon learn that what the other's were doing was simply familiarizing themselves with the track.

The fact that I often pass Corvettes on the road in my shop beater Escort wagon doesn't mean that on that day or any other my Escort is faster or handles better, only that at that point in time I chose to drive at a higher rate of speed.

[Excaliber]

Having given it some thought I don't think Doc exagerated "that much", if any really. Certainly has a right to be mighty proud and excited haveing "beat" a Shelby on the track. Makes for one hell of a good story anyway you look at it!

With a BIG headline like "BDR Beats Shelby on the track" you GOT to be prepared to take some flak, thats a no brainer. No way CC members are going to just "accept" such a "headline" like that without scrutinizing in detail what happened.

BIG Headlines sells papers, here on CC it gaurentees a long thread! In that respect, well done Doc, you certainly got MY attention!

[Richard Hudgins]

Hi Doc,

The bottom line here is that you went quicker in a track session than anyone else and it was a lot of fun!

And that is why you bought your car, to have fun.

Therefore, I congratulate you.

Keep at it. Fun isn't it?

All you folks here need to pay a bit of attention to the attitude that Doc portrays.

The man is having fun. And is proud of it.

I must commend BDR for fostering this attitude. Good Job, Guys.

[clayfoushee]

Damn well said Richard!

[Jamo]

Richard...assolutely!

[chuckmynatt]

I'll have to say that Doc's totally right. Of course I'm not biased!

Chuck

[John McMahon]

I think its great that Doc had some REAL fun on the track.

Most folks just go to have fun and if they are better than someone else in the process, GREAT!

Others should get down from their Ivory Towers and do the same.

Its all good, clean fun.

[mrmustang]

I've been trying to stay far away from threads like this one lately...However, in this case I have to say that some of you guys are just far too anal and nitpicky....Doc had a great time racing on the track. He was excited and decided to share his experience with the rest of us. Those of us who have been road racing before understand where he is coming from, those of you who have never taken your car road racing just won't get it.

Enough said.


Bill S.

[klayfish]

Amen. He went out and had a great time and was apparently the fastest Cobra out there. To me, the solution to this debate is simple. If someone feels another car is quicker, go on out to that track and lay down a faster lap time.

I wish I could run 100 open track events a year. It's more fun than anything you can do on the street. It's an absolute rush!!

Steve

[Excaliber]

Uh,,, hello ,,, the headline was

"Backdraft beats Shelby", in Vegas, at the "home" track no less!

Sure,,,,, NO WAY that headline would attract any attention. Surely NO ONE would care what the details are. ONLY an "anal" person would dare question what happened?

I saw a pig fly the other day, and have you heard the one about Shelby being abducted by aliens?

Ahhhh,,,, sometimes you just ask for it!

Still chuckling and STILL glad Doc had a great time, I'm jealous!