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Kirkham Motorsports

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  • 1 Post By rbgray1

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Old 02-17-2019, 08:57 AM
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Default CR Body Mount and Door Cutout Question

I dug into archives on the older body mounting posts which proved very helpful but I realize they dont address the current issue I am facing and curious if anyone has input.

Does everyone leave the door cutouts in until the final install of the body? I wonder if the answer to this question answers my other questions.

When we installed the body for fitment we observed the body contacts the frame correctly at the front wheel wells (with weather stripping installed), on the front part of the cowl hoop, and behind the seats where roll bar goes through body.

However, along the door sills, the back bar of the cowl, and the floor under seats is currently floating about 1/2-5/8" above the frame rails or floor rails.

Our initial thought was the body was caught on something in the rear that was not allowing it to drop appropriately, but after investigation and further reading manual and older posts, the back is the last step, and people are often raising it a bit for correct alignment.

That brings me back to the door cutouts, I imagine with the cutouts removed the mid section of the car would have more flex and might draw down appropriately at the sills for fit-up.

We unfortunately did our long and painful door fitment procedures already not realizing our body was floating high so that might involve round 2. Both Don and DV in previous posts explained securing the 1/4-20 body bolts at sill to set body in order to set door.

I am leary of doing that unless I put rubber iso mounts in between the frame and body to secure it where it lies, or remove door cutouts in order to allow body to flex better and drop to the frame. But I do plan to remove the body for paint and am concerned removing cutouts and still lifting and taking the body off and on again could be problematic.

Any thoughts?
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Old 02-17-2019, 06:14 PM
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If I recall on the two CR's I've built, the front needs to drop fully down and then the rear of the body can be lowered while pulling back to lock the front in. I always kept the door cutouts in tact to keep the body from folding like a taco. Ive seen some use a 2x4 cut to the exact length and wedged between the front dash lip and rear deck lip. The body area under the seats for instance need to set tightly to the frame part with no gap. Kind of hard to explain....
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Old 02-18-2019, 09:19 AM
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Be very careful with removing the door cutouts prior to permanently mounting the body and doing final door fitment AFTER the body is secured permanently in place.

The rocker / Sill is not a very strong portion of the body and can easily crack if the cutouts are done prior to body fitment.

One thing about fiberglass is that it will "relax" or sag over time if not supported. Since I am rebuilding my car, I cut two pieces of 3/4" plywood and fastened with many screws around the door frame area BEFORE I removed any body mount bolts and lifted the body off the car. I also build a rolling jig out of 2x8 framing lumber with casters and support from the body jig all or the locations that are supported by the frame. Due to Fiberglass tendency to "sag" over time, if you don't do this the body will sag and warp if not properly supported.

You have a slightly different issue where the center of the body is higher than the front or rear. I would recommend to NOT cut the door blanks out but rest the body in place on the frame, potentially attached to the front of the frame by the front frame rails, block the rear of the body slightly higher that the desired final position, maybe two inches or so, and get your workshop warm for a few days and see if the fiberglass "sags or relaxes" in the center section over a few days in a warm shop. You will be surprised how much fiberglass will move if you allow it to just relax into position.

If it does sag to where you need, you can follow remaining body mount procedures, complete the door cutouts and then refit your doors AFTER the body is permanently mounted. Ive seen where some of the members have painted their bodies OFF the car and then performed refitment of doors, hood, decklid. This can be done but you have to be extra cautious in properly supporting the body in the correct places so the fiberglass doesn't relax or sag in the wrong way.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:32 AM
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Ok, going back on my build.
I always had a issue with body sitting high at the (I know it was the rear, but it may have been a little high in front too.).
I am talking like a inch high...

I had a hard time figuring it out but acme to the realization that part of the parking brake was hitting the rear transmission hump part if the body (the part that is the cockpit).
I realized this as I was going through DV's body/door mounting procedure, so on my car the door inserts where removed around the same time I discovered the body not quite fitting right.

If your car had the door inserts removed and sat for awhile, maybe the body flexed down so the rear sat on the rear deck of the frame.
I doubt that through as that trans tunnel part on the rear cockpit is way too close too allow to sag to set in.... But you should check. It was not easily apparent to me.

Question about the doors you already have fitted, do all the gaps match or remain tight except for the top rear where the gap should be larger?
Per DV's door/body mounting instructions, ther should be a larger gap there, where you will close it by lifting the rear of the body slowly (closing that gap) and then installing the rear plate to prevent the rear from dropping again.

If your door gaps are perfect all the way around, I would double check everything as something does not seem right, if the rest of "lines of the body" seem right, I would say install spacers. and carry on with the rest of the build.
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Old 02-22-2019, 09:24 AM
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Appreciate the responses. Regarding the body fit-up we dropped front of body on frame rails and worked to back. It appears to hit somewhere in back, but @Wisconson-Snake maybe I need to revisit the tranny tunnel as a source that might hold mid body up high.

I can fit my fingers under body so about 1/2" or more it sits above door sills, and I have to flex fiberglass down on the fiberglass sheets under the seats.

I think the key is, it rests on front of cowl bar but is slightly raised above rear support of cowl. so something is hitting somewhere. I figured either I cut door cutouts and that helps me settle it in, but from most of your responses it appears I will leave cutouts in, and try to solve the body issue before cutting.

As to the door, we got our doors to fit great in current location but I fear most of work was for not if we have to adjust...but the adjustment should be mostly the rear of door dropping with rear of body when we find what is holding body up.

I will attempt to attach a pic of our door fitup. We did not plasma torch door hinge supports but oversized holes so we had access to move door as needed then when we got it where we wanted, we added two holes and spring pins to have repeatability in finding door fitment in future.
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Old 02-22-2019, 11:06 AM
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Man those gaps look beautiful!!!
Is that a seam on the middle of your door sill? I don't think mine has a seam there.
Looking at your rear exhaust hanger, I believe that it's supposed to hang down like a 1/2 or a inch. (so that looks right).
Fudge I am envious of your doors.
My doors are malformed on top so I am going to have to take a body saw and cut the seams to get the tops to match the car's body.
Driver's side door malformed?.
BTW, I am going for the title of world's long CR build. (Life just keeps on getting in the way.)
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Old 02-23-2019, 05:33 PM
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My door sills do have a seam down through the middle. And yes this door turned out nice, we have a group of guys working on the car together, and I give all the credit to Joel who put in the agonizing patience on these doors. The driver side actually is our better door fit. The main issue I have with passenger door is the top front of the door ridge was made incorrectly so it sticks up higher then the body flowing down from the windshield area. You can somewhat see it in the picture.

I hope when we get the body back on we can find a way to get it to seat better down in the seat wells and we can recreate our door fitment at a lower position.

I havent had the fastest build myself...but hey Im flying compared to the guy I bought it off of. He bought it in 1991 and never started. I picked it up in 2016 and just slow and steady progress.
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Old 02-24-2019, 08:02 AM
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I have a classic roadster that I started building from 1999 and I finished it in 2005. I'm in New Jersey if you would like to see it and you are more than welcome to take a look at it. I am about 2 hours from you.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mofo View Post
I can fit my fingers under body so about 1/2" or more it sits above door sills, and I have to flex fiberglass down on the fiberglass sheets under the seats.
looking at my kit, I do have space between the frame and the door sills.
not quite 1/2 inch but I would say it's the same amount as the weather stripping that goes there.
I am wondering if that gap you free is the space caused be the weather stripping?

Would love to see more pics..

Last edited by Wisconsin_Snake; 03-11-2019 at 01:26 PM..
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:13 PM
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Rafael that is a nice looking CR. My doors have a lot to be desired in fine fitment. I did not build the car originally but have had to adjust them a couple times and they are ok but I wish the gaps were tighter. Like my son says...Dad, nobody is looking at your car saying it is a POS because of the little things that you see. It is actually pretty bad ass and a whole lot of fun.

John
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:32 PM
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Here is another place where the body may get hung up not allowing it to sit down all the way.
Simple solution for a (possible)aggravating problem

Shoot, now I am going to have to check this on mine.
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