Don, another question: front end alignment

[MaSnaka]

It looks to me that the two ears are to wrap around the shock tower as in the installed picture. It's not possible to see in the picture any alignment issues this position creates.

I know when I took the CR front wheel alignmet specs to the tire shop they told me they couldn't achieve the specified camber because the A-arm assembly would not not slide in towards the engine far enough. Just slightly out of spec.

It looks like your brackets would allow for further adjustment in this direction. But I don't think they are supposed to alter the angle. I'm no expert here just making an observation.

John

[TWOOD]

Here is the photo I inserted into posting #5 to this thread.
It shows both brackets (which are identical, but maybe they shouldn't be), but the ears are of unequal length. The question is: which side of this bracket should be placed against the frame and which side gets the control arm mounted to it.


This photo shows how it might be asembled , IF the irregular "ears" side of the bracket is placed against the frame. This places the control arm level horizontal with the ground. However the side of the bracket, where the control arm would mount is only 3/16" thick and doesn't seem like very much metal to take all the force of the control arm pushing it toward the engine.


This photo show how it might be assembled, IF the rectangular side of the bracket is placed against the frame. This place the ears pointing upward. Note that the straight side is in contact with the shock tower and one of the holes will not align with the mounting bolts. This also does not allow for any adjustment. In this photo the control arms are moved toward the engine as far as the slots in the frame and the bolts will permit.


Now look athe this side view of the two brackets placed back to back,as they might be in the car. Note the different height of the ears and note that the control arms would be mounted to these holes. The arms would NOT be parallel to the ground OR to each other. One control arm would be tilted upward and the other tilted downward (relative to the front & rear of the vehicle).


This is a view from a different angle of the two brackets. Assuming the brackets are supposed to be mounted in this position then couldn't it be possible that the brackets should not be identical, but rather mirror images of each other? So that the control arms would be tilted either up or down, but parallel to each other.


Somebody has got to know how these brackets were intended to be mounted.
I'm thinking I was sent two of the same part and I really need a left and a right bracket.
Anybody have these actually mounted on their cars.
I tried to verbally describe this question to DV and failed to communicate effectively. I thought more photos might help.

[tcrist]

This is the picture

Tom,
Look at the first picture that you send me of the a-arms,spindle and the bracket. If you take picture #3 here, showing how the bracket will not line up with the bolts, and turn it around 180 degrees. That is what it shows in the picture. I agree that it looks like you were sent 2 of the same bracket and you might supposed to have a right and left.

These brackets would bolt up with the single hole to the frame and the leg of the angle (that bolts to the frame) goes towards the engine. The a-arms would then bolt to either of the 2 remaining holes and then the adjustment would be by using shims between the a-arms and the angle (like a chebbie). Add the picture of the assembly that you sent me to your post. I think that will help others see what I am seeing.

This is just my opinion of course.

Terry

[gman]

The control arms are not supposed to be parallel with the ground. They lean from high in the front to low in the back. This is for anti dive, and is correct for Mustang II suspension. I believe you have two brackets for the same side.
Gman

Also the last photo of the frame is correct. The bracket does not allow adjustment. You must use alignment shims between the bracket and the control arm.

[mrbones]

Tom,
You have two driverside brackets!!
MrBones

[TWOOD]

Thank you Tcrist, Gman, and Mrbones! Your combined inputs are very much appreciated.

Hey, Terry (Tcrist). Can you use a passenger side bracket. Seems that I have two driver side brackets. Would you like for me to ship my extra bracket to you to use as the pattern to make your bracket for the opposite side. Might be better to work from than that tracing I faxed to your work site.
If you do plan on having brackets made I would be very interested in participating, and sharing the cost, in order to get a passenger side bracket for myself. You could then keep my extra driverside bracket. I did already have them powder coated gloss black.
Please, let me know. Thanks again to everyone who tried to solve my dilema.
Tom

[tcrist]

Tom,
I sent you an e-mail. Send me one of your brackets and I will make 2 opposite ones and a set for John (Masnaka). I will also make prints for anyone that wants a set.


Terry

[Double Venom]

Tom,
seems like every post in the last group are absolutely right-1- they are not parallelll to the ground and they are stock anti-dive brackets,2 they do go higher in the front than the back, 3-they really don't allow for proper adjustment, just that they help keep from loosening a set adjustment, final is actually done with shims. As said it does appear you have two of one side.

Wasn't your explanation fella, I just wasn't getting my point back to you correctly! I hope this helps. Nice that Terry can do what he does.
Now do what is suggested, get a cup of coffee and kick it a few times with tennis shows on, it will give you something else to think about until you get the right parts!
DV

Hey! We'll get you there one way or the other.

[MaSnaka]

Interesting to mention that the A-arm and coil over conversion I purchased through Pete at CRII did not include this bracket set. Thanks to you guys talking about it I have learned that something was missing. Makes me wonder what else might be missing...keep talking.

John

[Double Venom]

Tom,
As I mentioned the brackets are made for two different (types) of cars, one being the Cobra THE OTHER FOR SPRINT CARS. You will use the holes that line up when finally installed. Welding is not necessary, just guarantee that the arms can not get out of alignment.
DV

[gman]

I could be wrong but I think you have two passenger side brackets.
When you have them on correctly the front holes should be higher than the back holes.
Gman

[TWOOD]

I'm just amazed at the fine group of people who took the time to offer constructive opinions to help each other solve commonly shared problems.
What a great group of fellows. I'm more and more impressed the longer I participate in this forum.
Thanks, again to all who have contributed. Hope to meet some of you someday and shake some hands.
Some where down the road, some other fellow just might have these same questions and will find this thread and the solution to his problem.
Tom

[TWOOD]

ASSUMING that the assembly photo is CORRECT, what Gman said does fits with the photo of the complete assembly.
But,.....for these brackets to be passenger side brackets the ears have to be away from the shock tower and the control arm has to attach to the side of the ears which is away from the engine.

I just now received an email from Don Scott which read:
"Thomas, the bracket mounts with the rectangular side down, the high side of the bracket goes to the front. The arm mounts to the inside of the bracket towards the center of the car. Everything is the same as the picture, tube_arms.jpg."

The key is "the arm mounts to the inside of the bracket towards the center of the car."
That fits with the photo.

What it does not say is:
The clarification is (as the photo shows, not so clearly):
that the bracket ears have to be up against the shock tower and the control arm is attached to the ears on the engine side of the ears.
This means that the photos two brackets I have are both for the driver's side.

The taller ears toward the front of the car and the shorter ears toward the rear of the car, I believe has been established as a firm given. Seem that everyone agrees with that part.

[gman]

Makes sense to me. Which side of the bracket is surely a question for the manufacturer since we can't see a cross section of the geometry. Good luck, I think you got it now.
Gman

[MaSnaka]

A light bulb went off in my head this morning and here is my thought/question...The after market brackets being used to true up the proper alignment have the front mounting hole sitting higher than the rear mounting hole where the upper A-arm bolts on to the side of the bracket. Looking at my front end without this bracket, it visually looks like the A-arm is already sitting higer in the front than the rear. So if one were to use this bracket, the angle would then be doubled. Isn't the angle already built into the Mustang II front end assembly to prevent the dipping?

It seems to me the only correction that should be necessary is in the camber setting where a staight piece (as opposed to one with offset holes) of an angle bracket used to allow proper shimming and still maintaining the original (hopefully proper) position of the upper A-arm.

This subject may be way over my head and if I am talking nonsense please forgive me. But I would still like some clarification if anyone can help.

John

[tcrist]

Will the guys that e-mailed me for a copy of the print that I made up for the alignment brackets resend me their e-mails? I had a computer glitch and lost some of my latest e-mails.

Tom,
Your bracket will be sent out shortly. I had my welder cut off the bracket and re-weld it on the other direction. I figure that way you will have a matched set of the original brackets. The new ones that I am making might be a little different than the original.

DV,

Which holes do we use on the cobras, the lower set or the uppers? If we only use the lower set of holes I could make the brackets without the upper set. I think it would look much better without the extra holes.

Terry

[TWOOD]

[IMG][/IMG]
Passenger side looking toward engine. Bracket is tight against the shock tower.
[IMG][/IMG]
Another view from the same side.
[IMG][/IMG]
View from above. Note that the rear carriage bolt heads barely clear each other.

I hope that who ever views this thread will grasp an understanding of the installation of these brackets quicker than I have. Thanks to all who contributed to help me understand my problem. Especially Terry Crist, who reworked my two (same side, and incorrect) brackets to give me two mirror image brackets.
Note: Look at this follow up thread for details on Terry's modified brackets and machine drawings.
Alignment Saver