Researching any info re: Paul Cunningham, Competition Cobra privateer

[1ntCobra]

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Well I suppose there is still the possibility that Paul Cunningham purchased the car from the Abidin family on or prior to August 1963. But then again if Ann got the 1964 registration application, that makes it unlikely that Paul Cunningham owned the car, unless, and this seems unlikely, for some reason, Ann bought the wreck back after the mechanics lien against Paul Cunningham came through. It does seem more likely that Ann owned the car, Paul got to drive it and keep it at his home, but the Abidin family finally came back to collect the wreck that they owned before the mechanics lien came through.

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

http://www.tamsoldracecarsite.net/PaulCunningham.html

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham

Sorry Buzz, I was replying to Ned, I should have quoted him. I was interested in the Newpaper article that Ned had quoted.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Click on the link after the first sentence in my last post - it will take you to the article. No mention at all about Cunningham buying the Cobra.

Here it is again:

PaulCunningham

Paul did drive others cars on a rare occasions, sometimes to shake the car down, or to assist someone in solving a setup problem, possibly to qualify a car, but never on a full time schedule like with our personal cars, namely the Sprite, the Terrible Tempest, the white Kurtis/Pontiac, and the Cobra.

The change in ownership/sponsorship/driver/entrant/etc. began post Pomona, as for a "Muth Ford" sponsorship I do not recall that ever to be the case, I will look back at a Riverside race program and photos. The Henry Ford collection has many photos of the battle during the one hour race including #37, #211, #96, and others.

It is possible that someone did a photoshop job on it.

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Paul did drive others cars on a rare occasions, sometimes to shake the car down, or to assist someone in solving a setup problem, possibly to qualify a car, but never on a full time schedule like with our personal cars, namely the Sprite, the Terrible Tempest, the white Kurtis/Pontiac, and the Cobra.

The change in ownership/sponsorship/driver/entrant/etc. began post Pomona, as for a "Muth Ford" sponsorship I do not recall that ever to be the case, I will look back at a Riverside race program and photos. The Henry Ford collection has many photos of the battle during the one hour race including #37, #211, #96, and others.

It is possible that someone did a photoshop job on it.

Hi Michael - the question I have is why in the article I linked did you refer to the Cobra in your own words as "a privately owned Ford Cobra" when you named the cars that Paul drove? That certainly doesn't sound like you believed it was his own car.

[CompClassics]

Deleted

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by CompClassics

Seriously, what do you think “privately owned” means?

Stuff your condescension up your a$$

In listing the cars Cunningham drove, Michael made no reference to the ownership of the other vehicles but referred to the Cobra as "a private owned Ford Cobra" which is what distinguished it from the team Cobras under the ownership of Al Abidin. In that context it comes across to me as just one of the cars that Cunningham drove for someone else.

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Hi Michael - the question I have is why in the article I linked did you refer to the Cobra in your own words as "a privately owned Ford Cobra" when you named the cars that Paul drove? That certainly doesn't sound like you believed it was his own car.

Quite simple Watson, Cunningham is the private owner!

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Quite simple Watson, Cunningham is the private owner!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZfZ8uWaOFI

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Quite simple Watson, Cunningham is the private owner!

Look - I've been on your side pretty much all along while others have been more than a bit hard on you, implying repeatedly that you have some ulterior motive in trying to cash in on 2049 by establishing some claim to the title and building your own air car. That's because in your second post, you stated:

"In the last 15 years or so, I have been acquiring period correct 289ci engine, Mark II front end clip, roll bar, etc. to go with the chassis remnants, foot boxes, aluminum interior panels, dash board and upholstery remnants.

Looking for a partner with whom we will reconstruct the real Cunningham Cobra, a very rare factory competition prepared 289ci Mark II Cobra."

You then went onto declare all you care about is correcting the history, and you were admittedly up front about your frame turning out to be a junk AC Ace chassis. Some of us still did our own searching and speculating in the hope that Cunningham's ownership could be proven.

I simply agreed with one poster (who rebutted me for expressing hope in your story btw) that to date, nothing has been posted that validates your claim. If that's too much for you and CompClassics then that's just too bad, lol!
Good luck

[twobjshelbys]

Originally Posted by Buzz

Look - I've been on your side pretty much all along while others have been more than a bit hard on you, implying repeatedly that you have some ulterior motive in trying to cash in on 2049 by establishing some claim to the title and building your own air car. That's because in your second post, you stated:

"In the last 15 years or so, I have been acquiring period correct 289ci engine, Mark II front end clip, roll bar, etc. to go with the chassis remnants, foot boxes, aluminum interior panels, dash board and upholstery remnants.

Looking for a partner with whom we will reconstruct the real Cunningham Cobra, a very rare factory competition prepared 289ci Mark II Cobra."

You then went onto declare all you care about is correcting the history, and you were admittedly up front about your frame turning out to be a junk AC Ace chassis. Some of us still did our own searching and speculating in the hope that Cunningham's ownership could be proven.

I simply agreed with one poster (who rebutted me for expressing hope in your story btw) that to date, nothing has been posted that validates your claim. If that's too much for you and CompClassics then that's just too bad, lol!
Good luck

I quoted tha "air car" thread earlier. Still feels like he is desperately searching to any credibility to an equally air story. We'll know when the subpoenas show up.

[Nedsel]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Do you have a picture of the newspaper page that came from?

Well even if you do, I suppose Michael might point out that if you have an old newpaper printing press from the 1960s lying around in your garage with some blank vintage newspaper paper, you could easily forge the article.

Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by Nedsel

Here is a link to the site with the newspaper article for anyone who wants it:
https://www.newspapers.com/search/#q...ymd=1963-04-19

I will have to check that out later.

I suppose that Michael may now suggest that newspapers.com, a subsidiary of ancestory.com, is an elaborate hoax website created solely to supply forged newpaper articles about CSX2049?

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I will have to check that out later.

I suppose that Michael may now suggest that newspapers.com, a subsidiary of ancestory.com, is an elaborate hoax website created solely to supply forged newpaper articles about CSX2049?

Why the open animosity?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

Why the open animosity?

I at least put a smiley on some of my sceptical statements.

I go back and forth on which way I think about this and I have proposed scenarios that could have your father owning the car that fit in with the paperwork we have seen. It seems that if there is anything that contradicts your memories that you tend to think that a forgery or a hoax is involved. You seem quick to suggest that Muth Ford could be photoshopped on those pictures if it does not fit your memory, so if there is a newspaper article that contradicts your memories, would you think the newspaper article is some sort of hoax as well?

I may check out the newspapers.com site, but it looks like I have to sign up for a free trial to do so. I get enough junk email already without signing up for a free trial to some website.

So if there is a newspaper article from April of 1963 that says that CSX2049 was Al Abidin's car, would that contradict your memory of the situation? It seems that you don't think the Abidin family ever had anything to do with the car. Is it possible that you father purchased the car from the Abidin family sometime between April and August of 1963? At what date in 1963 do you think your father acquired the car? Would that date contradict the April 1963 newspaper article or not?

[USC_COWBOY]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I at least put a smiley on some of my sceptical statements.

I go back and forth on which way I think about this and I have proposed scenarios that could have your father owning the car that fit in with the paperwork we have seen. It seems that if there is anything that contradicts your memories that you tend to think that a forgery or a hoax is envolved. You seem quick to suggest that Muth Ford could be photoshopped on those pictures if it does not fit your memory, so if there is a newspaper article that contradicts your memories, would you think the newspaper article is some sort of hoax as well?

I may check out the newspapers.com site, but it looks like I have to sign up for a free trial to do so. I get enough junk email already without signing up for a free trial to some website.

So if there is a newspaper article from April of 1963 that says that CSX2049 was Al Abidin's car, would that contradict your memory of the situation? It seems that you don't think the Abidin family ever had anything to do with the car. Is it possible that you father purchased the car from the Abidin family sometime between April and August of 1963? At what date in 1963 do you think your father acquired the car? Would that date contradict the April 1963 newspaper article or not?

I have no problem with Abidin ownership prior to Paul's first Cobra entry at Cotati 7/27/1963 the car is listed as #246. My quest is after that date wherein there is not one reference ever to Abidin, Nada!

[Buzz]

Originally Posted by USC_COWBOY

I have no problem with Abidin ownership prior to Paul's first Cobra entry at Cotati 7/27/1963 the car is listed as #246. My quest is after that date wherein there is not one reference ever to Abidin, Nada!

If there's a concession that Al Abidin owned 2049 prior to 7/27/'63, and now there's a document implying (strongly) that he still owned what was left of it in 1967, does that put the main topic of this thread - Paul Cunningham's ownership - to rest?

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

I at least put a smiley on some of my sceptical statements.

...

I may check out the newspapers.com site, but it looks like I have to sign up for a free trial to do so. I get enough junk email already without signing up for a free trial to some website.

...

Oh man! I have to give them a credit card number for my free trail. Cancel in 7 days to avoid the $74.90 annual fee!

Would I be an idiot to sign up? I guess I am that idiot.

Alright, I didn't read all the fine print. There was something about copyright in there. Maybe it is not a good idea to just put up screen shots of the newspaper page on the internet.

[1ntCobra]

Originally Posted by 1ntCobra

Oh man! I have to give them a credit card number for my free trail. Cancel in 7 days to avoid the $74.90 annual fee!

Would I be an idiot to sign up? I guess I am that idiot.

Alright, I didn't read all the fine print. There was something about copyright in there. Maybe it is not a good idea to just put up screen shots of the newspaper page on the internet.

OK. I was going to just make this image available temporarily, but I went back and looked over the newspapers.com website and apparently, it is ok to search, clip and share things that you find. There are options to download images. So I think it is fine that I leave this image of the newspaper page here.