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Kirkham Motorsports

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  • 1 Post By Skuzzy

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 08-15-2020, 06:46 PM
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Default Need some help folks

After 8 long years of trying to get my build done, I am finally pushing it to the limit to get it ready for the San Marcos trip this October.

Running into a few hitches though. Here is the latest.

Some history. The kit was originally a Lone Star Classics kit from around 2006-ish. It came with an 8.8" rear end. The origins of which I have no idea, and therein lies the problem. The differential casting has the triangulated mounts at the top of the casting.

I have successfully added a 31 spline Eaton Trutrac along with 31 spline forged Yukon axles(axle length 29 3/4",for both sides.

I failed to add any Wilwood brakes due to the axle tube diameter being 2 1/2". It is mostly 3" (or so) in diameter until it drops to 2 1/2" the last 4 inches or so.

Now, my problem. I cannot find any brake pads to fit the calipers the kit came with. I have no idea what the origins of the calipers are. I have attached pictures of them.

At first, I thought the rear end might be circa 1995-ish from a Mustang. Then I found photos, of what appeared to be the calipers from a 1955 Mustang Cobra SVO. The calipers look very much like the right deal, but the pads are 2/3 the size of the ones needed for the calipers in the kit.

I would replace the calipers, if that was an option. Not knowing what the rear end came from makes it difficult.

Here is some information.

Rotor, vented and 10 1/8" in diameter. 15/16" thick.
Axle/Flange Offset 2 3/4"
Axle Tube diameter 2 1/2"
Caliper Mounting holes 3 3/4" apart.
5 bolt hub (although the rotors are drilled for both 4 and 5 lug hubs)
Axle length 29 3/4"

If you want to know anything else, I'll get it for you. I am dead in the water for completing the car without some brake pads or replacement calipers.
Attached Images
  
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Last edited by Skuzzy; 08-16-2020 at 09:19 AM..
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:34 AM
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I posted this over on the DFW Cobra page on Facebook. Hopefully one of those guys can help out. Come to the Meet in San Marcos in October and you can meet lots of folks from up in your area. Texas Cobra Club Fall Meet
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Old 08-16-2020, 07:56 AM
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hey look like 1995 mustang GT rear calipers.
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Old 08-16-2020, 08:03 AM
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My 2000 Lone Star had Expedition rear brakes.

John
ERA #3010 Slabside 289 SB BRG
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Old 08-16-2020, 09:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seagull81 View Post
I posted this over on the DFW Cobra page on Facebook. Hopefully one of those guys can help out. Come to the Meet in San Marcos in October and you can meet lots of folks from up in your area. Texas Cobra Club Fall Meet
Already registered and even registered my car. The plan is to get it there. Just need to get over this hump,...and a few others I have not yet run into.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPlainsDrifter View Post
hey look like 1995 mustang GT rear calipers.
Perry
Yes, it does look like the Mustang calipers, but it isn't. The Mustang pads are 2/3 the size needed to fit this caliper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by desgros@vtlink. View Post
My 2000 Lone Star had Expedition rear brakes.

John
ERA #3010 Slabside 289 SB BRG
I have not found an Expedition caliper with a parking brake built-in yet. I'll keep looking. Thanks,..it is a start. If the mounting holes match,..I'll get new calipers. Figure a bracket can be made to hold a spot parking brake if need be.
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Last edited by Skuzzy; 08-16-2020 at 09:20 AM..
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Old 08-16-2020, 09:40 AM
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Those do look just like 1995 Mustang GT calipers.
The rear pads only fill the center section on those and not the full carrier like on the fronts.

Like these. Flip thru a few photos to see the pad size.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...2FJIuObB8TA%3D
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Old 08-16-2020, 02:01 PM
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Calipers look like Ford Thunderbird. I’m not sure of the year but it’s a common caliper.
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Old 08-16-2020, 03:30 PM
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The 1989 Thunderbird pads almost fit. They were the right width, but they would not sit flat in the caliper and did not allow the rotor to fit between them. Still looking at them though. They show the most promise so far.

If I could find a caliper to replace these, I would go that route. I am getting concerned this is going to keep me from completing my build in time for San Marcos.

I only have the weekends to drive around and look for parts.

I am just going to forgo completing the rear end assembly, in case I have to pull the axles to replace the bracket, or to make more measurements. The evenings, this week, are for running fuel and brake lines.


Quote:
Originally Posted by spdbrake View Post
Those do look just like 1995 Mustang GT calipers.
The rear pads only fill the center section on those and not the full carrier like on the fronts.

Like these. Flip thru a few photos to see the pad size.
https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo...2FJIuObB8TA%3D
The Mustang caliper does look like it the right one, but the pads are not wide enough to engage the caliper pad capture slots. The pads would get ripped out of there first time you engaged the brake.
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Last edited by Skuzzy; 08-16-2020 at 03:34 PM..
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Old 08-16-2020, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuzzy View Post
After 8 long years of trying to get my build done, I am finally pushing it to the limit to get it ready for the San Marcos trip this October.

Running into a few hitches though. Here is the latest.

Some history. The kit was originally a Lone Star Classics kit from around 2006-ish. It came with an 8.8" rear end. The origins of which I have no idea, and therein lies the problem. The differential casting has the triangulated mounts at the top of the casting.

I have successfully added a 31 spline Eaton Trutrac along with 31 spline forged Yukon axles(axle length 29 3/4",for both sides.

I failed to add any Wilwood brakes due to the axle tube diameter being 2 1/2". It is mostly 3" (or so) in diameter until it drops to 2 1/2" the last 4 inches or so.

Now, my problem. I cannot find any brake pads to fit the calipers the kit came with. I have no idea what the origins of the calipers are. I have attached pictures of them.

At first, I thought the rear end might be circa 1995-ish from a Mustang. Then I found photos, of what appeared to be the calipers from a 1955 Mustang Cobra SVO. The calipers look very much like the right deal, but the pads are 2/3 the size of the ones needed for the calipers in the kit.

I would replace the calipers, if that was an option. Not knowing what the rear end came from makes it difficult.

Here is some information.

Rotor, vented and 10 1/8" in diameter. 15/16" thick.
Axle/Flange Offset 2 3/4"
Axle Tube diameter 2 1/2"
Caliper Mounting holes 3 3/4" apart.
5 bolt hub (although the rotors are drilled for both 4 and 5 lug hubs)
Axle length 29 3/4"

If you want to know anything else, I'll get it for you. I am dead in the water for completing the car without some brake pads or replacement calipers.
What numbers are cast on those calipers? A p/n search using that number may get you the answer you're looking for. Try entering that number in Rockauto's search engine and see what it comes up with.

Edit: Those calipers look like the ones in this "SSBC USA Drum to Disc Brake Conversion Kits A114" made for 8.8" axles: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tsb-a114:

SSBC Kit #A114 uses SSBC 1047 pads, FMSI #D-347 per Installation Instructions: https://www.catalograck.com/ImgVD/SSB/A114.pdf

You can get them directly from SSBC, of course, but Summit Racing has a few other brands listed, including some you could find at your local auto parts store - look for 1993 SVT Cobra (ironic!): https://www.summitracing.com/int/sea...20brake%20pads

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Last edited by cycleguy55; 08-16-2020 at 05:02 PM..
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Old 08-16-2020, 04:57 PM
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Looking at the top down view in the 1989 T-Bird and the 1995 Stang I see the difference now you spoke of.
Are the pistons fully bottomed in the calipers? They ratchet up during emer brake use.
Advance Auto has the rotator kit in the Loan-a-tool program. Free to rent

https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/...20OR%209150047

You probably know all this already though.

Cycleguy, that looks promising.
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Old 08-16-2020, 06:06 PM
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spdbrake, I learned a long time ago never to assume anyone knows anything about anything. I appreciate the input, you never know what one thing might trigger a memory lost to time.

You nailed it though. I did not verify the pistons are fully retracted. I assumed they were as they have never been used, but we know how that works. I'll double-check that.

The SSBC kit does show promise. It lists a 10 1/2" rotor, while I am dealing with 10" ones, but that is close enough for the same caliper to be used. I'll look into that one. THANK YOU! Keeping my fingers crossed. I did note those pads look a lot like the Thunderbird pads I just tried.

By the way, I did research the numbers on the castings and came up with a blank.
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Last edited by Skuzzy; 08-16-2020 at 06:11 PM..
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Old 08-18-2020, 01:20 PM
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I will throw my 2 cents in even though I don't currently own a Cobra. However, I am using SVO rear brakes on my current project on my own custom made brackets. The SVO calipers are the same as regular GT parts, but the pads are thinner to fit over the vented SVO rotors.

This info may still not help since you list the rotor OD as 10.125. SVO rotors are around 10.625. Have you tried actual SVO pads?

Last edited by Hotrod46; 08-18-2020 at 01:22 PM..
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skuzzy View Post
spdbrake, I learned a long time ago never to assume anyone knows anything about anything. I appreciate the input, you never know what one thing might trigger a memory lost to time.

You nailed it though. I did not verify the pistons are fully retracted. I assumed they were as they have never been used, but we know how that works. I'll double-check that.

The SSBC kit does show promise. It lists a 10 1/2" rotor, while I am dealing with 10" ones, but that is close enough for the same caliper to be used. I'll look into that one. THANK YOU! Keeping my fingers crossed. I did note those pads look a lot like the Thunderbird pads I just tried.

By the way, I did research the numbers on the castings and came up with a blank.
You've probably sorted this out already, but calipers with integral parking brakes need to be rotated while being pushed back in order to retract them without damaging the parking brake mechanism. I discovered that when I bought a disc brake conversion kit with GM calipers for my car. When I got it I worked the parking brake actuation lever on the caliper a couple of times before installing it, then had to deal with how to retract the pistons in order to actually install the things. There were no instructions in the kit on how to actually do that and, not being a 'GM guy', I needed help from the Internet to figure it out.

I bought a kit from Amazon that fits most makes and models. Money well spent, though you may well be able to borrow or rent one from many parts stores - especially if you're buying brake pads.
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Last edited by cycleguy55; 08-18-2020 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 08-20-2020, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotrod46 View Post
I will throw my 2 cents in even though I don't currently own a Cobra. However, I am using SVO rear brakes on my current project on my own custom made brackets. The SVO calipers are the same as regular GT parts, but the pads are thinner to fit over the vented SVO rotors.

This info may still not help since you list the rotor OD as 10.125. SVO rotors are around 10.625. Have you tried actual SVO pads?
Yes I did. They are 2/3 the length they needed to be to reach the capture steps in the caliper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cycleguy55 View Post
You've probably sorted this out already, but calipers with integral parking brakes need to be rotated while being pushed back in order to retract them without damaging the parking brake mechanism. I discovered that when I bought a disc brake conversion kit with GM calipers for my car. When I got it I worked the parking brake actuation lever on the caliper a couple of times before installing it, then had to deal with how to retract the pistons in order to actually install the things. There were no instructions in the kit on how to actually do that and, not being a 'GM guy', I needed help from the Internet to figure it out.

I bought a kit from Amazon that fits most makes and models. Money well spent, though you may well be able to borrow or rent one from many parts stores - especially if you're buying brake pads.
No, I have not sorted it out yet. I work Monday through Thursday and only have the weekends to work on the car. It is 45 minutes from the house to the shop where the car is, but attacking the piston retraction is the next step to try. The engine (block and rotation assembly) are scheduled to arrive next week, so I really need to get sorted out this weekend to have any shot at making San Marcos with the car.
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Last edited by Skuzzy; 08-20-2020 at 04:56 AM..
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Old 08-20-2020, 05:49 AM
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A couple of resources that might help, James Yale at Radical Roadsters in Magnolia, and Ultimate Classic Cars in Boerne. James has a lot of Cobra experience and might be able to help, UCC took over Lone Star when they went under. You might also post this on Talkcobra, there are some active Lone Star owners on that board.
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Old 08-21-2020, 08:05 PM
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First off, thanks to all those who pitched in and helped. The problem has been solved.

It is an 89 Thunderbird rear end, or at least the brake calipers and brackets are from of that vintage. All it took was the tool to get the pistons retracted.

I now have a rolling chassis! Any of you making it to San Marcos, tap my shoulder, as I owe you all a drink.

Today the rear got sealed up, the rear tires are mounted and the suspension is all cinched down. Tomorrow, mounting the fuel pumps, filters, and running the fuel line.

Finally feel like I am moving forward!
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