Goodbye Kansas

[a427sc]

Re your brake caliper installation: Way back when, I swapped out the Jag rear for the ERA outboard setup in my old (#50) 427 car. Being the "creative" engineer, I adapted AP calipers, solid mount, all around. Racers used them, and so would I. First lap at the Glen, something weird was happening. The pedal seemed to fall off on first hit. Must be a little air, I'll re-bleed it later. Really starting to get into it in the toe of the boot and flat down to the heel....pedal is on the floor and I'm pumping like crazy and it comes back. I learned to left foot tap the pedal just before I braked. All this story telling is leading back to the point here. If you are running the Jag ball bearing setup in the hub, your gonna get rotor kickback and a crappy pedal. Choice here is floating calipers or taper bearings with adjustable preset. My cheap fix was an inline valve to hold 5psi in the caliper and hope the pistons floated back and forth. Sold the car that fall and never really got the chance to sort it out. Damned 'ole Bob knew what he was doing, he spec'd floating calipers right from the start.

edit: Just REALLY looked at the hub pic's and see a taper bearing race. So.....never mind.

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by a427sc

Re your brake caliper installation: Way back when, I swapped out the Jag rear for the ERA outboard setup in my old (#50) 427 car. Being the "creative" engineer, I adapted AP calipers, solid mount, all around. Racers used them, and so would I. First lap at the Glen, something weird was happening. The pedal seemed to fall off on first hit. Must be a little air, I'll re-bleed it later. Really starting to get into it in the toe of the boot and flat down to the heel....pedal is on the floor and I'm pumping like crazy and it comes back. I learned to left foot tap the pedal just before I braked. All this story telling is leading back to the point here. If you are running the Jag ball bearing setup in the hub, your gonna get rotor kickback and a crappy pedal. Choice here is floating calipers or taper bearings with adjustable preset. My cheap fix was an inline valve to hold 5psi in the caliper and hope the pistons floated back and forth. Sold the car that fall and never really got the chance to sort it out. Damned 'ole Bob knew what he was doing, he spec'd floating calipers right from the start.

edit: Just REALLY looked at the hub pic's and see a taper bearing race. So.....never mind.

Way cool - big thanks.

We are taking some risk engineering wise. The adaptation of the rear brakes is a concern. Will be disappointing if we cannot get it sorted.

Nearly everyday we speculate on how fast it will run. There is an older gent that runs a Lotus (Elise?) Spyder at PIR. This is a very light, full aero, track car with a blown Toyota 4 - 240 hp. He runs 1.24. Last time out I was running 1.33 in my Mustang. I will be very happy if we can run with the Lotus. I will be very disappointed if we cannot stomp the Mustang.

We swapped Wilwoods all around into the Mustang last summer and it dropped lap times like noting else. I love multi piston calipers which is why I decided to go for it. The risk is that the Mustang front and rear kits were developed by very capable companies who develop and race what they build. I knew what I was purchasing.

We are adapting on a bit of a prayer. If it works it will be beautiful. If not I will have wasted two very nice ERA uprights.

On your setup - were the AP brakes lug or radial mounted?

chr

[ERA2076]

I want to check the shifter location relative to the other controls so we went ahead and dry fit the engine and trans. Engine needed a little shim to make level. Hole pattern on trans mounting plate rotated a degree or so from normal so we will have to fix that. The 302 block really fits the car.






3/8"

[DanEC]

Lots of room in that engine bay. Thats disgusting actually.

[ERA2076]

Check out this foo-pa

Look at the trans mounting foot. No fill on the left side (?)- sand it and ship it.



chr

[ERA Chas]

Gonna use sold motor and trans mounts?

[ERA2076]

Originally Posted by ERA Chas

Gonna use sold motor and trans mounts?

They are copies of 289 mounts, but lock up. There was a thread here some time a go about motor mounts developed for FSB hot rods. They are designed to allow vibration at idle, but have steel in them that lock them up if too much rotation is encountered. I did not keep the boxes. I would have to research to tell you where I got them. I am hoping you know of the ones I am speaking of. I am using poly for the trans mount.

[a427sc]

Small Blocks.....so much hp, so little weight, so little size. It isn't any fun if you can change out header gaskets in less than 4 hours. The AP's were lug mounts, adapted to the mounts for the Corvette's. What is that trans? Looks like a very short tailshaft. Oil pan is just about right height. If you put a belly pan in there (part of the aero package to manage air/air out), it will also take most all the damage going agricultural (short of a pointy rock). Besides, the oil pan will push the junk away from the bell housing. I ran a windshield very similar to yours. At final trim, it put the air stream about an inch above my faceshield and the helmet was very solid.

Really like what your doing, I'm sure you'll kick that Lotus's butt.

[ERA2076]

a427cs - The trans is a t5. We had to fabricate a mount for it, but the drive shaft that fit the 3550 fits this one. I want to run an alum drive shaft. We verified the length so will be ordering soon.

I have been pulled a way from bottom aereo, but am headed there. Would very much like to hear your ideas when I can get back there.

x-chr

[ERA2076]

Please look at the picture of the screwed up foot. It appears to be some sort of mold closure problem that left the foot undersized on one side. The builder will take care of it, but I am wondering if it is worth it to replace the tail shaft housing if a properly sized spacer could solve the problem.

Would a properly sized spacer be mechanically sound? There is 1/2 " between the two sides.

Do I really need to break open a new, sealed box to repair a casting problem?

x-chr

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

Would a properly sized spacer be mechanically sound? There is 1/2 " between the two sides.

Do I really need to break open a new, sealed box to repair a casting problem?

x-chr

My fear would be that the short side casting is inherently less strong. And a spacer would not add strength-only contact area for the fastener. That's just a total WAG, 'cause I never had the problem.
But you'll be putting torque through that with sticky tires...

[a427sc]

The left side mount should be ok as it's shorter length decreases leverage as it is pulled up. Right is in compression and longer for a more stable set-up (if you have movement in the motor mounts). I use solid motor mounts to control rotational movement in the driveline and a flexable trans mount to absorb some movement vertically. The different heights of the trans pads have no effect in my setup since movement is up/down.
So, I guess the tail housing is a custom piece, what about the internals? straight cut gears/dog clutches? I run this one with a mag tail housing with a 350 hp 302 in a 2100# car JT5 Enduro 5 Speed

[ERA2076]

G Force case - Astro internals.

[ERA2076]

It spins freely at 3.700 BS - not so much at 3.890.





Inside tire clearance on a 10" rim.

[ERA2076]

Finally getting to the front hubs.

[ERA2076]

8" rim width. Still messing with the backspace.

[ERA Chas]

That 1 degree neg is very apparent.
PS-Allen's car is the one I told you to check for Weber hood clearance a while back.

[ERA2076]

Actually that is 2 on the drivers side. Once I get it back on the rack I will set it to 1.

I don't think there is any problem running a 302 block with Weber's and no scoop. It is astonishing how far down it sits compared to the 351. Brent has a pretty tall Edelbrock manifold on it and it sits down there.

What about the body roll? Does the pic seem typical? I ask because I may need to stiffen the bars some.

x-chr

[DanEC]

Even with all you have done I'm surprised by how much weigth you managed to get off the car. Your down in FFR and all billet aluminum Kirkham territory now. Very surprising considering how robust the frame and body are on the ERA. Sorry, I'm abosolutely of no help on your questions.

On your transmision height I think I would measure your U-joint angles before getting too concerned. I had my tailshaft sitting at 3-3/4 inches per Bob/Doug and due to some interference betwwen the shift boot/transmission lever/tunnel they recommended I raise it some more to resolve the issue. They sent a 5/8 inch spacer for the mount but I only used about another 1/4 to 3/8 inch movement to clear things up. With my tunnel in place I can't check my angles right now but ERA didn't seem to believe it would cause any problem.

[ERA Chas]

Originally Posted by ERA2076

What about the body roll? Does the pic seem typical? I ask because I may need to stiffen the bars some.

x-chr

For an ERA I think so. Bruce's #3170 is tighter but as radical as yours.
Dan, I think Cliff wants the weight as low as possible for Cg.