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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2015, 12:13 PM
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Before I agreed with that, I'd like to see a couple of shots of whatever it is that's powering your fan and how the previous guy did it. That will tell you a lot.
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Old 01-07-2015, 05:01 PM
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Default I will talk you through this easy

Bliss you have my number, call me. Call ERA first and tell them you need a new fuse block. The rest is just time and doing 1 wire at a time. ERA will give you a wire diagram of the car with colors and gauge thickness. We do need to open up the harness and remove the clamp to see what other damage is done. SW has a black face gauge for cobras with a volt meter that goes to 16 volts. I think it is colored with red, yellow green. If you don't like the colors remove the clear cover and get black touchup paint and color over them. NO body will know but us. The reason the fuse block melted was the short was on the other side. The amp gauge terminal insolators got hard and just burn up. Beening there is not fuse from gauge to fuse block, it burnt those wires like you see. Voltage meter will fix this. If you played the game operation, this is a piece of cake, pie,beer, steak, candy.
Loosen the screw of the dash and drop the steering column. You will see how easy it is. When done just tape up the harness. What would you do if you where out in a desert, no AAA to help and no phone. You would fix the car. Play McGiuver and stop whining. this is part of owning a cobra. This How old?? That wiring has a better copper content than the new stuff. repair what you see. wrap the other wires by themselves. Rick L.

Last edited by RICK LAKE; 01-08-2015 at 03:05 AM..
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2015, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE View Post
...fix the car. Play McGiuver and stop whining. this is part of owning a cobra.
Compared to replacing the turn signal stalk control on a Grand Prix, this is a piece of cake.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 01-07-2015, 07:20 PM
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Perfect replacement http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sww-82391/overview/
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by lippy View Post

That's the one I have.
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Old 01-08-2015, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RICK LAKE View Post
Bliss you have my number, call me. Call ERA first and tell them you need a new fuse block. The rest is just time and doing 1 wire at a time. ERA will give you a wire diagram of the car with colors and gauge thickness. We do need to open up the harness and remove the clamp to see what other damage is done. SW has a black face gauge for cobras with a volt meter that goes to 16 volts. I think it is colored with red, yellow green. If you don't like the colors remove the clear cover and get black touchup paint and color over them. NO body will know but us. The reason the fuse block melted was the short was on the other side. The amp gauge terminal insolators got hard and just burn up. Beening there is not fuse from gauge to fuse block, it burnt those wires like you see. Voltage meter will fix this. If you played the game operation, this is a piece of cake, pie,beer, steak, candy.
Loosen the screw of the dash and drop the steering column. You will see how easy it is. When done just tape up the harness. What would you do if you where out in a desert, no AAA to help and no phone. You would fix the car. Play McGiuver and stop whining. this is part of owning a cobra. This How old?? That wiring has a better copper content than the new stuff. repair what you see. wrap the other wires by themselves. Rick L.
Unfortunately, I've lost practically all hearing so I no longer use the telephone.

Question....

1. What are the changes to the wiring, e.g. changing to a voltmeter (currently two wires go to the AMPS Gauge - with one directly from the Starter Solenoid)?

BTW - thanks so much for all your input.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2015, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by bliss View Post
Unfortunately, I've lost practically all hearing so I no longer use the telephone.

Question....

1. What are the changes to the wiring, e.g. changing to a voltmeter (currently two wires go to the AMPS Gauge - with one directly from the Starter Solenoid)?

BTW - thanks so much for all your input.
Unlike the ammeter, you can run a volt meter off of any switched power source (meaning it's only hot when the key is on). It draws virtually no current, so it does not have to be a beefy circuit. For instance, if you have a heater fan under there, the hot line feeding it could be easily tapped in to. If you have a cigarette lighter in the dash (that doesn't work when the key is off) that would be another nice spot to tap in to. Or you could just run a new wire out through the grommet and attach it the fused side of fuse #4, which is switched, IIRC.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:18 AM
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Is there a Smith's voltmeter that is a good match for the typical Smith gages?

Patrick - you have Smiths gages - are you using a voltmeter?

Bliss - I'm curious about when you tore into your wiring - were both connections to the amp gage tight? The wiring damage looks similar but even worse to the damage I had when the main lead at my alternator came loose backed off. I'm wondering if this might have been due to a lead coming loose.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by DanEC View Post
Patrick - you have Smiths gauges - are you using a voltmeter?
No. I use an ammeter. But, I have a parallel line around the ammeter. Parallel lines in a circuit divide the current based on the respective resistances of each. So, should the ammeter, over time, create more and more resistance (which would normally present a danger), more current passes through the parallel line, instead of burning up the ammeter. The readings on the ammeter are no longer spot accurate (if they ever were), but they're reasonably close and clearly show a charge or discharge condition. What most people don't realize is that, when the engine is running, and all the electric stuff is running hard, the current through the ammeter is still next to nothing. That's because the load sits on the same side as the alternator's feed -- and that's why your ammeter should be reading just a bit above zero. The only time it should show a higher plus reading is when the car has just been started, and the battery needs a little recharging. But once that's done, your ammeter should only be passing a few amps -- hardly any. Now, if your alternator isn't running, then all current is running through the ammeter. Big current motors can still draw a heavy load though when they come on -- that's why you may see your ammeter needle swing hard when your fan comes on but then settle back to zero.
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Old 01-08-2015, 10:57 AM
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Hi Patrick,

I plan on running a ammeter when I wire my Hi-Tech and I would be very interested to know how you ran a parallel line with the ammeter. I think that is a great idea and adds a measure of safety.

Thanks - Kevin
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2015, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Mongoose930 View Post
Hi Patrick,

I plan on running a ammeter when I wire my Hi-Tech and I would be very interested to know how you ran a parallel line with the ammeter. I think that is a great idea and adds a measure of safety.

Thanks - Kevin
It is very simple to do. On an ERA, there is a 50 Amp master circuit breaker that sits right in front of the battery that protects the system in case something goes big time wrong. From that circuit breaker, a wire runs through the firewall to the ammeter and then back out the firewall to the fuse box. To run the parallel line all you do is a run a wire, I chose a 12 gauge wire (for a very good reason), and ran it directly from the circuit breaker to the fuse box. That wire is "in parallel" with the ammeter and its line. Current will run through both lines and will be apportioned based on the respective resistances of the two paths. But note that the current will still add up to whatever it was before you added the parallel line. Now, in most ammeters all the current is not actually going through the little measuring device in the gauge. A portion of it is and then that value is multiplied for display. But, a poor connection at the ammeter or some other malfunction, can, and does, create a good bit of heat, because the resistance increases and the current has no other path. But with a parallel line, the current will now increase through this "path of least resistance" and you will notice that the ammeter gauge no longer shows you the readings that it once did (because the current going through there is less). A parallel line will not only prevent a big problem from occurring, it will also tell you if your ammeter, or ammeter line, is having a problem -- you just have to pay attention. But even if you don't, you'll still avert a catastrophe.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 01-08-2015, 11:42 AM
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Thanks Patrick. Is the wire going to the Ammeter 10 gauge or 12 gauge? I am thinking that most of the current would run through the 10 gauge wire (if that is what it is) and only go through the 12 gauge parallel wire if there is a problem with the ammeter / 10 gauge wire. Great information.
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Mongoose930 View Post
Thanks Patrick. Is the wire going to the Ammeter 10 gauge or 12 gauge? I am thinking that most of the current would run through the 10 gauge wire (if that is what it is) and only go through the 12 gauge parallel wire if there is a problem with the ammeter / 10 gauge wire. Great information.
Right. The resistance of the new 12 gauge line is just a wee bit higher, but not much more, than the existing ammeter line. That allows the ammeter to still work very nicely. I do notice that when you turn on all the fans the "peg" of the needle does not go nearly as far as it once did. Other than that, the readings are just a bit more subdued, but still tell you pretty much everything that they always did. If I disconnected the ammeter entirely and just ran the car on the 12 gauge parallel line, it would probably be alright, certainly for a while, but it might also heat up and you wouldn't want to run it that way forever by any means, but maybe you could. The thing is, if all of a sudden I note my ammeter is acting differently than it has for the last seven or eight years (and it acts very consistently), then I know to stop and investigate. I have to say that's one thing nice about these cars, they tend to give you a little advance notice before they crap out on you. But sometimes that advance notice is really subtle....
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Old 01-08-2015, 12:55 PM
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To answer your question on what percentage of the current goes through what path, let's say your ten gauge ammeter line has a total resistance of .003 ohms, which is what one of the internet calculators says a three foot span of ten gauge wire has, and let's say your new parallel 12 gauge line has a resistance of .005 ohms. Now, the difference of .002 ohms is hardly anything, but it results in 62% of the current going through the ammeter and 38% going through the parallel line. Now, let's say something happens and that ammeter goes up to just .01 ohm (in one way, that's still not much). Now the current going through the ammeter will only be half as much as the current going through the parallel line. Move the ammeter up to just 1 ohm of resistance and now the parallel line carries 99.5% of the current. I think I did that right...
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Old 01-08-2015, 01:23 PM
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Thank you so much. I really want to run an ammeter for the sake of originality and having a parallel wire as a safety back-up makes me feel a lot better about it.

Now about that non-isolated fuel pressure gauge...
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Old 01-08-2015, 04:18 PM
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Patrick - I think you missed your calling in not becoming an electrical engineer - but it probably pays less than your current occupation. I'm drawing a blank on that 50 amp circuit breaker sitting in front of the battery. Being too warm and comfortable to walk out into the cold garage to study my car some more - I wonder if that circuit breaker is on the firewall now, just to the right of the starter solenoid in this picture? The wiring diagram appears to show it connected to the positive battery terminal at the relay.

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Old 01-08-2015, 04:44 PM
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Yes, that's it. The battery is connected to the starter solenoid with the large cable. From there, it is connected to the 50 amp circuit breaker. You do it that way so the starter motor's draw does not go through the circuit breaker but everything else that draws from the battery does. All charging of the battery goes through that circuit breaker as well.

EDIT -- and it's always been there, I just consider that to be "next to the battery."

Last edited by patrickt; 01-08-2015 at 04:46 PM..
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Old 01-09-2015, 10:24 AM
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Thank You ! Thank you! Patrick, A wiring fire is always one of my main concerns when it comes to my older cars. My ERA is nearly 20 years old and has an Ammeter that seems to functioning fine. I'm extremely interested in this discussion and the ability to protect my car any way I can. A simple fix like this is great to know. I'll make the wire change asap. Again, much thanks, all the info from the CC Members is priceless.
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Old 01-09-2015, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awfink55 View Post
Thank You ! Thank you! Patrick...
Well, that's the nicest thing anybody around here has said to me in a long time.

Here's how you can check your work after running the parallel line. Of course, if you happen to have an inductive ammeter, that takes all the guess work out (mine below cost about $100 or so, IIRC). Before you run your parallel line, with the car engine off, turn your head lights on and turn your fans on, and snap a pic of your ammeter. The needle should be a good bit over to the negative side. Run your parallel line, now repeat the test and snap another pic. Post both of the pics here and keep them for future reference. Your ammeter should still behave pretty much as it always did, just with less movement. If you find that your ammeter begins to move less than it did, or if your ammeter should stop working entirely, then you will need a meter to correctly diagnose the problem (because you want to know how much current is really going through the ammeter line, regardless of the fact that the dash ammeter says it's zero). It could be that the ammeter line is perfectly intact, there are no bad connections causing resistance, and everything is flowing normally... but the gauge just doesn't work anymore. On the other hand, if you clamped an inductive ammeter around the old existing ammeter line, headed up under the dash, and it reported that only 1% of the current was going through that dash ammeter and 99% of the current was now going through the parallel line, that tells you that you may have avoided having a very, very bad day (and, of course, you'll now need to fix whatever it is that's creating all the resistance in your dash ammeter circuit).


Last edited by patrickt; 10-31-2016 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 01-10-2015, 02:25 AM
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Default You guys are missing something here

GUYS Here's the problem with a curcuit breaker, It protects the wiring curcuit from over load. Downside. IF you have a wiring problem like the amp gauge problem here and the power wire shorts to ground, it will blow and open the curcuit. HERE'S the problem the curcuit breaker cools off and resets. These thing will reset from 10 - 50 times. Each time the problem is grounded and burns the wire coating. Over time you get a melted wiring harness.
Slow blow glass fuses worked for alot of years in a car or truck. They are now plastic and cheaper to make but still do the same thing. If you want to save your wiring harness from burning up, install a maxi fuse and holder. It's not orginial but will protect the wiring harness of the car. You have them on most new cars and truck. They range from 80 amps to 250 amps. It only blows once. Have to find the problem but alot less damage to wiring harness. I have a 100amp for my wiring system and a fusible link of 125 amps on my ALT.
Side note all fuses are measured for ampage ratings of constant load. The problem is when a curcuit is turned on, like lights the amp spike instead of 10-15 amps is 30-40 amps for a split second. This is the reason for slow blow fuses.
Late note IMO wouldn't recommend running parallel curcuits. If you run 2 wires to and from the same terminals and one shorts out. Unless you cut it out of the curcuit it's only going to burn up the other curcuit too. ERA wiring harness is just fine. Issue again is the insolators of the amp gauge from SW or Smith. Theses gauage where not designed to handle 60 amps constant and spikes of over 100 amps on startup if your system is wired that way.
If you want to run the oem look of an amp gauge, leave it unhooked and run a voltage either under the hood or in the glove box to keep a check on the battery and charging system Rick L.
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