Era brakes Upgrade

[patrickt]

You know, I don't think the upgrade to the four pistons is all that much. That's the way to do it, ya know....

Edit: (from the ERA 427 Options Page)


Competition [front brakes]: Includes 4 piston alloy calipers, 12.2" directionally vented rotors, custom hats, caliper brackets, hoses & hardware. Requires spindle modifications ... $1500

Spindle modifications, add ... $100

[Dangerous Doug]

Well, for $500 or so the SSBC upgrade made a very positive improvement over the stock Camaro brakes. The difference in pedal feel coming from feeding two smaller pistons in the SSBC brakes instead of the one large piston in the stock Camaro brake caliper. With the two smaller Pistons you feed a much smaller volume on pedal compression.

Bob also mentioned the additional pad area, which undoubtedly helps.

If you're using the stock Camaro brakes and you have an uneasy feeling as you press the brake pedal, the SSBC's will make a noticeable difference. These turned out to be a good solution for me.

Bob? You guys ever think of offering the SSBC's as an upgrade? I am really happy with mine.

Cheers,
Doug

[DanEC]

There are also Wildwood conversion kits for 70s era GM cars that run from around $1,000 to $1,500. They are 4 - 6 piston calipers. I assume they do not require spindle modifications but with more pistons they may require a master cylinder change. The 2-piston SSBC calipers using the stock spindles and master cylinder do sound like a good move if they do make a noticeable change in brake feel.

[lippy]

When I ordered my ERA and was considering brake options, I spoke with Wilwood and others to try to come up with an optimal but cost effective solution. After a bunch of work I just ended up with the ERA/Wilwood big brake option for the fronts only. It just works and it isn't really more expensive. You may want to consider just ordering the upgrade parts from ERA. It'll probably save you a headache. At very least call Bob and spend some time with him on the phone.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by strictlypersonl

The Stainless Steel Brakes caliper A185S is the best bolt-in replacement. Piston area is close to the original, and so doesn't require a master cylinder change. Because the piston centers are further out on the disc surface, there's 5-10% more mechanical advantage.
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ssb-a185-s

*By the way... Before you do anything, check that your brake balance bar is set up correctly. If you don't have enough stroke-bias to the front master cylinder, the balance will be off and the pedal will be really hard.

In addition, the pads can become glazed when they are not used hard during the break-in, or for a long period afterward. If sanding the friction surface doesn't fix that, replacement may be necessary.

Great post Bob, thanks, however, this kit is not available. I was looking at this series and I did not see this kit in the 75 Camaro section, now I know why. They do have a replacement for it, but it does not come with some of the hardware. It is http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ss...t/model/camaro
I think I am going to do this. Was not planned, but I love the idea of simple improvement that is cost effective. Between this, new rotors and rubber hoses, I expect a noticeable improvement. Now I just need rotor part numbers and the rubber hose part numbers. I think I saw in the Assembly manual that the rubber hoses are a modified piece from ERA. I just looked, it is EISSP5753/modified whatever that means?

A little confused. Your second paragraph: You are talking about after I install right? This is nothing I have to do before purchasing?

Third paragraph:
Are you talking about sanding the pads or the rotors, or both? Somewhere I think I read 80 grit recently!

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Unfortunately you have reached the limit of my knowledge of the ERA Camaro brakes and the ERA inboard Jag brakes (of which I have neither). FWIW, I don't recall reading about too much variation in the Camaro and Jag brakes setup though.

LOL, that is impossible!!!

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

I used the SSBC part as defined by Bob above. I used a Camaro SS brake line kit that matched the SSBC coverage on Summit. No bias issues, and no change to the master cylinder either. I'm very happy with this change, and the brakes feel quite safe and confident.

It's a good, cost-effective upgrade that is sufficient for the street. I also upgraded my reservoirs from the tin cans to a nice aluminum set from Wilwood, which looks nice.

Cheers,
DD

I will be checking it out. This Camaro SS brake line kit, I thought you went with braided?
Got any pics of the new Wilwood cans. The single reservoir that is on my car scares the crap out of me every time I look at it. To me it is not separate brake systems as I have read in the manual. All I know is if for example I spring a leak in the rear brake line line, I will lose my front brakes and my clutch because it is all sharing the same fluid. That will leave me stranded on the side on the road (no clutch or brakes), or smashed up! That is almost the same thins as the single master cylinder set up on my old 55 Chevy!
The separate cans would isolate each system for sure.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Dangerous Doug

Well, for $500 or so the SSBC upgrade made a very positive improvement over the stock Camaro brakes. The difference in pedal feel coming from feeding two smaller pistons in the SSBC brakes instead of the one large piston in the stock Camaro brake caliper. With the two smaller Pistons you feed a much smaller volume on pedal compression.

Bob also mentioned the additional pad area, which undoubtedly helps.

If you're using the stock Camaro brakes and you have an uneasy feeling as you press the brake pedal, the SSBC's will make a noticeable difference. These turned out to be a good solution for me.

Bob? You guys ever think of offering the SSBC's as an upgrade? I am really happy with mine.

Cheers,
Doug

I noticed the pads they give you with this set is "Graphite metallic". Is this good for the street or is it the pads that need to heat up before they work good. Did you use these pads?

[patrickt]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

LOL, that is impossible!!!

Well, I will say that the big brakes, and the outboard braked rear, make doing anything with the brakes pretty much a breeze. Yeah, I know a GM caliper up front is not much work anyway, but with the big brakes all you do is pull a cotter pin out and stick the pads in. You still have to remove the wheel, but that's about it. The rear is a larger difference. Even with the little trap door on the Jag based rear, you'll never make it easier than outboard brakes.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by lippy

When I ordered my ERA and was considering brake options, I spoke with Wilwood and others to try to come up with an optimal but cost effective solution. After a bunch of work I just ended up with the ERA/Wilwood big brake option for the fronts only. It just works and it isn't really more expensive. You may want to consider just ordering the upgrade parts from ERA. It'll probably save you a headache. At very least call Bob and spend some time with him on the phone.

You're right, I will talk to Bob about that option, but I think it is a LOT more expensive of an option. If it was close to the same money, I would go that route for sure.

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Well, I will say that the big brakes, and the outboard braked rear, make doing anything with the brakes pretty much a breeze. Yeah, I know a GM caliper up front is not much work anyway, but with the big brakes all you do is pull a cotter pin out and stick the pads in. You still have to remove the wheel, but that's about it. The rear is a larger difference. Even with the little trap door on the Jag based rear, you'll never make it easier than outboard brakes.

Can I be in your will...lol?

[patrickt]

Nothing beats the original Girling cans. The old ones, and the cheap replicas, don't hold up too well, but these are quite nice: Press Release: Reproduction Girling Reservoirs by Classic Gold

[Kit Coyle]

The A185S that Bob likes may not be available and the replacement, A185
appears to have a much "fatter" body shape that may interfere with 15" Cobra
wheels. This needs more research. The braided SS brake lines will make some difference because when you depress the brake pedal using rubber lines
they tend to expand with increased pressure while the SS lines do not. When I
changed to braided SS lines on a 916 Ducati the brake feel improved a great
deal and no longer felt spongy because the applied pressure was now fully
directed to the caliper pistons and there was very little lost to line swelling.

[Dangerous Doug]

I recall purchasing a braided stainless steel brake line kit for a 72-76 Camaro, which would normally be used to replace the two front rubber lines and the one rear rubber line. I didn't need the rear one as the one provided by ERA was already braided stainless steel.

I used the pads provided with the kit, but don't recall if they were graphite or semi-metalic. I believe I have semi-metalic on now.

I am trying to remember where I picked up my brake reservoirs and brackets. I'll try to dig through my Cobra files for the source.

The Girling tin cans look original, but they leak badly around the top cap (even when properly filled) and then the paint peels and the cans rust. I took my originals down to get chromed but the cleaning process bent the thin cans. The aluminum reservoirs I bought look very nice, though they may not be for the "purist".

[Dangerous Doug]

PM me with an email or cell number and I'll send a pic of my reservoirs.

[DanEC]

Originally Posted by davids2toys

You're right, I will talk to Bob about that option, but I think it is a LOT more expensive of an option. If it was close to the same money, I would go that route for sure.

Did Bob indicate if it requires a change in the master cylinder?

Also, I would not be too worried about the single reservoir. Even if a leak develops in the rear system and drains all the fluid out of the reservoir, as long as the front system is tight it will remain in operation. Only if you develop a leak in both master cylinder/line/caliper systems would you lose all brakes. And even then, multiple reservoirs may not help.

A single reservoir is different than a single master cylinder. I have a 66 Corvette with a single piston/circuit master cylinder. With it, a line failure anywhere will leave me totally without brakes (except emergency)

[DanEC]

I agree with Doug that the Girling cans are a bit of a pain and fragile but installing Dorman seals in the lids has taken care of all issues of leaks for me. I keep the cans just over half full and with the lid seals I don't have any leaks. When I remove the lids I usually find the lid seals are slightly distended indicating a good seal. The connections at the bottom of the cans have been a bigger issue. I re-sealed all of my cans with some good sealer in addition to the provided gasket washers.

Edit - to give credit where credit is due:

Patrick came up with the girling can lid gaskets.

ERAChase suggested using two hose clamps at each rubber line connection to the steel brake lines - with the scew tensioners spaced 180 deg apart - to prevent leaks.

[Dangerous Doug]

-- SSBC Brake calipers, these are similar if not the ones I used. Summit has a pretty liberal return policy, so if you bolt them on and there is wheel interference I'm confident you'd be able to return them.

http://www.summitracing.com/search/b...oview=SKU&ar=1

-- A Summit Racing version of the braided stainless steel lines. I think all I did was check the manufacturer's length against what was on my ERA, and then reviewed the fittings to make sure I could connect both ends.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/su...t/model/camaro

-- These are the Wilwood reservoirs I use. I purchased three of these and mounted them in direct replacement of the Girling tin cans. They are roughly the same size as the "useful" volume of the Girling cans. I added braided lines down to my steel lines which required new fittings, but I don't have any leaks or issues. (I also am not a big fan of the rubber lines that went from the reservoir to the steel lines, but braided lines here are certainly overkill/overengineering on my part.)

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/wi...2697/overview/

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by patrickt

Nothing beats the original Girling cans. The old ones, and the cheap replicas, don't hold up too well, but these are quite nice: Press Release: Reproduction Girling Reservoirs by Classic Gold

They do look nice! Anybody got a pic of the proper location of the separate cans in a Cobra?

[davids2toys]

Originally Posted by Kit Coyle

The A185S that Bob likes may not be available and the replacement, A185
appears to have a much "fatter" body shape that may interfere with 15" Cobra
wheels. This needs more research. The braided SS brake lines will make some difference because when you depress the brake pedal using rubber lines
they tend to expand with increased pressure while the SS lines do not. When I
changed to braided SS lines on a 916 Ducati the brake feel improved a great
deal and no longer felt spongy because the applied pressure was now fully
directed to the caliper pistons and there was very little lost to line swelling.

I does appear that way, but I bet it is the same caliper shot at a completely different angle. I plan on calling Summit.
I love the look of the rubber line much better on the Cobra, but I am leaning toward the braided for the reasons you stated. The ERA Assembly manual says modified for their front lines. Would that not mean the same modification would need to be done to the braided line meant for a stock Chevy application??